On Oct 8, 9:52 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
> it may not be possible to examine peace without also examining
> violence, but, I think, as long as we come out of it with our focus on
> peace, we will come out ahead.
It is the other way around : it is not possible to examine violence
without realising peace. Peace is what is truly in our nature. We
have only to ( re ) discover it within ourselves. It is the violence
that is acquired from without ... as the new born is ' expelled ' from
the security of the womb, followed by hunger and thirst, helplessness,
soil, insecurity, comparisons, inequities, the whole range of
individual - family - social liabilities crying to be discharged,
apathetic and negative behaviours suffered in one's environment, etc.
This acquired violence covers our true nature and hence is required to
be ' removed ' to realise the peace pre - existing within us. Having
thus realised peace, through abjuring violence completely, with great
exercise of courage and sustained self - belief in an environment that
actively promotes the opposite ... one can choose to exercise
violence to prevent the violent from holding sway.
The last is exemplified in the life of the tenth Sikh Guru, Gobind
Singh, and in that of his father, the ninth Sikh Guru. Not everybody
needs to pay such huge costs. But the process is the same ...
extremely difficult to fathom and complete. The blessed ones
experience the love that sees them through the onerous task.
Everyone is aware of the general fact : words are cheap. It takes a
braveheart to walk the talk. The bravery is special, but more because
the walk is so impossible and rare.
> On Oct 8, 12:35 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > There does appear to be a connection of what one embodies/manifests
> > and ones interaction in the world. On the other hand, the meek do not
> > appear to be near inheriting the earth. The karma of fight club seems
> > to arise whether one does anything or not.
>
> > In the US, corporate TV often goes on rants about professionals being
> > held to ‘a higher standard’ when it comes to being an example for
> > others. This principle, as intriguing as it is, would be interesting
> > if applied to the media sponsors and Wall Street let alone the
> > activities of government leaders. While such strife has always been
> > with us and as long as there is competition for resources always will
> > be, the newly publicized Bush Doctrine and associated divine right to
> > meddle in the affairs of others to any extent and for any ends at all
> > surely is not lost on the next generations. When it comes to the
> > clergy, a similar failure is clear. No matter the position of anyone
> > professing peace, being a living example is all important. Just
> > yesterday, Obama rejected meeting with HHDL for the fear of ticking
> > off China, of all things! This is ‘change’ we can do without.
>
> > On Oct 8, 8:13 am, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Thanks, Neil, it would not be the first time I relied on the person
> > > holding the gun next to me. But as I said, I have found that living
> > > in a way that is unattached to violent thoughts and feelings creates a
> > > non violent direct experience for me. Allan offers the formula: "I
> > > have to be at peace with who I am, what I believe and how I respond to
> > > my world. Then I have to take the responsibility for who I am and what
> > > I do, with out excuses," and this formula is among the best that I
> > > have heard.
>
> > > We can truly, as Allan suggests, only act peacefully in ways that our
> > > experience in the moment allows. That calling, I think, is a
> > > reflection of who we are in the moment and an invitation into greater
> > > possibility.
>
> > > It is ironic that the national attention is on youth violence in
> > > Chicago because one of the best studies in community and youth
> > > violence came out of the University of Chicago in 1993 and a ten year
> > > study funded by the federal Department of Juvenile Justice. I forget
> > > the name of the professor that administered the grant and directed the
> > > research, and my files are tucked away far out of reach. But in 1993
> > > I was one of the first people to access the info after publication,
> > > and it consisted of thousands of pages and papers on community
> > > organization for every sector of society. There was so much
> > > information that in order to not only distribute the info but the
> > > copying costs, I moved around from place to place for about a month,
> > > copying the recommendations for the judiciary at the courthouse,
> > > police at a police dept., education at a superintendents office - all
> > > volunteering to be part of the effort. If I had had the funding, I
> > > would have shipped it off to a printer, but sometimes we do what we
> > > must. The main idea that came out of this study was that community
> > > organization is key to reducing all risk factors in communities
> > > including violence.
>
> > > The point is, that the info came out of chicago, yet it seems that
> > > cook county did not utilize it the way lake county (just to the north
> > > in Illinois state) did. Youth violence is not a new problem but it is
> > > complex, beginning with problems of bonding between child and parent
> > > with the societal shift to two working parents in the home. Dr.
> > > Sigurd Zielke out of indiana had a theory at the time called "Kid's of
> > > the 90's" that offered a process of "repair and restoration" for kids
> > > who did not bond in the early years, and taught a good method for
> > > interaction with these kids that I used when designing trainings for
> > > my programs. Much youth violence of today begins here.
>
> > > My oldest son suffered the blows of the type of gang fight a few years
> > > ago, that has been coming out of chicago on the news, although he had
> > > a few buddies helping him out, he was the first to go down, hit with
> > > something across the face, breaking facial bones, causing a big
> > > concussion but leaving no permanent damage. It was in Old Town in
> > > Chicago, but Slip is right, it could have happened most anywhere.
> > > Fights like this on school grounds do (or should) get everyone, even
> > > the watchers, suspended or expelled. But they are not only on school
> > > grounds.
>
> > > Fight clubs are not just fictional, they are a huge social problem of
> > > this coming of age generation and I suspect it will be a problem for
> > > their children. If we can get back to lifestyles that meet the
> > > developmental needs of young children it will be a huge start. As Neil
> > > suggests, this would mean some shift in economies for families. I
> > > worked with my son consciousness raising while allowing that fully
> > > living the warrior within us before finding our peace is a traditional
> > > path. I was hoping football would give him a big enough outlet, but
> > > there seemed to be larger expressions begging release. Thankfully, he
> > > seems to have found a greater peace in his life now. Having been
> > > allowed the child parent bonding necessary, he had an edge for this
> > > learning curve that more and more kids don't.
>
> > > We each find peace in our own way, and plant the seeds of peace as we
> > > are called to do. It is also important to recognize those tendencies
> > > in ourselves that lead to violence, even on the more subtle,
> > > interpersonal forms: where do we create conflict so that we can feel
> > > it? when are we working against instead of with? When do we hold on
> > > to negative emotions much longer than necessary, holding on to our
> > > injuries to indulge in our old tracks? When are we judging our
> > > neighbors? Or focusing on the violence or negativity around us? All
> > > of these subtle forms of violence within ourselves will bring more
> > > violence into our experience because the old adage is as true as the
> > > paradox of the Pharisee, "violence breeds violence" but a better adage
> > > would be "peace breeds peace."
>
> > > On Oct 8, 6:12 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > If you were the Vicar in the War of the Worlds Molly I wouldn't let to
> > > > march down the Martians with your Bible (no heroism here, you'd have
> > > > given our position away and I'd have shot you if necessary) ... but I
> > > > know that's not what you mean. I think cosiness is an illusion we use
> > > > to evade reality, whether through prayer or humour. This doesn't mean
> > > > I don't want it at some appropriate moments. I always take Orn
> > > > seriously by the way, otherwise I could never laugh at him!
> > > > I'm pretty convinced that economics is at the root of much evil in the
> > > > world - huge resources go unused or have to be bought from idle owners
> > > > - and we are generally not educated to do much of what needs doing
> > > > ourselves in communities. I do believe something a bit like prayer
> > > > might help us get an understanding of this.
>
> > > > On 8 Oct, 09:21, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > what have you done recently to plant the seed of peace in yourself,
> > > > > family, town, county, state, country, world?
>
> > > > > This is a very good question and requires a lot of thought.
>
> > > > > the seed of peace within me. I believe that true peace has to begin
> > > > > with
> > > > > me,, I have no right to expect others to make the sacrifices that are
> > > > > needed
> > > > > if I am unwilling to make them myself. The old song is very true,
> > > > > "Let there
> > > > > be peace on earth and let it begin with me." . That means I have to
> > > > > be at
> > > > > peace with who I am, what I believe and how I respond to my world.
> > > > > Then I
> > > > > have to take the responsibility for who I am and what I do, with out
> > > > > excuses.
>
> > > > > As for the rest ,, I can only do what is placed before me speaking out
> > > > > against wrongs and trying to live life as a model for others to
> > > > > follow. Not
> > > > > that I am very good at that. I just can try.
>
> > > > > As for success only history will tell
>
> > > > > Mean while I will continue chasing my creator, hopefully like a child
> > > > > emulating their father.
> > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Molly Brogan <[email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > so often do gooders aren't really looking for peace as much as
> > > > > > attention. That mean green meme needs to work against, and creating
> > > > > > conflict is their way of life.
>
> > > > > > There is much to examine in terms of peace and self defense but I
> > > > > > suspect that if we can truly be peaceful in the way that we hold
> > > > > > ourselves consciously in each moment, the need for self defense
> > > > > > falls
> > > > > > away. Of course, in the heat of the battle, truly holding our peace
> > > > > > is allowing possibility for the moments to come, and is never easy.
> > > > > > We are each left to find ways to do this that feel right for us.
> > > > > > Your
> > > > > > model might include a humorous exchange with Orn, while mine would
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > the Lord's prayer. Certainly, letting go of the bias we are taught
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > an important part of finding essential peace.
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > (
> > > > > )
> > > > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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