For those who are interested in a “RATIONAL” description of theism in general, here are some old MP3 files that may be worth listening to.
http://holysmoke.org/audio/mmo.htm On Oct 24, 11:54 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > The Pagan gods and goddesses were no saints either! :-) > > On Oct 24, 12:43 pm, retiredjim34 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Archy - good issues to wonder about. > > I'd go back a bit further than Jesus and also wonder about God, > > at least the God of the Bible. Would you, coming at this whole topic > > afresh, choose to believe in a God that told his first beliver > > (Abraham) to take his son out back and kill him, who to win a bet gave > > the Devil the power to do all sorts of bad stuff to one of God's most > > devoted belivers (Job) and who to redeem mankind put his only son here > > to die a death of prolonged torture? Is that the sort of God any > > rational person would believe in? I guess so, because there seem to be > > a lot of rational people who do. But how about you? Jim > > > On Oct 23, 6:52 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I always start by wondering what I would think if ordinary Joe told me > > > the stories and also about the way I am easily conned by magic before > > > (and often after) I see the way the trick is done. I'm also inclined > > > to think copying and plagiarism is rife and was then. I notice much > > > talk of heroes is elaborated, so why am I expected to think > > > differently of religious stuff. Lies, illusions and fantasies can be > > > found daily - some modern Freudians even say they don't help clients > > > find the truth even if this is what they are looking for, but offer a > > > better organisation of their fections (I'll leave this in memory of > > > Father Ted!). > > > Personally, I doubt Jesus is a historical figure - more likely there > > > were many. I'd say the key issue is how we come to believe what is > > > mostly snake oil (the satanic abuse scandals in the UK make > > > fascinating reading on how phoney experts from abroad can influence > > > apparently sane cops and social workers) and how we are so influenced > > > today. I have no problem with wandering cynics seeking to change > > > society, and like many Greeks before me, have a sign saying they are > > > welcome above my door. The question as to whether Jesus owned his > > > clothes is a good one whether one needs to believe in him as the son > > > of God or not. > > > > On 23 Oct, 23:02, Manfraco Frank the Elder <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hi allan and others! > > > > Allan, your post could be very interesting for me and I am going to > > > > follow it very closely, I know I am not very learned like some of you; > > > > but I have got my own ideas or religious beliefs which need to be > > > > tuned in before I can express them more openly. I am sure that if one > > > > takes away parts of the stories which only embellish the gospels it > > > > may have very different meanings; but you have to be very careful > > > > about that if you believe in anything at all; you see you have to defy > > > > your own religious beliefs and be strong enough to change the gospel. > > > > Please, read the very end of the Bible, where there is a sort of curse > > > > if anyone changes anything. Are you willing to chance that? > > > > Send you all my regards > > > > Manfraco > > > > > On Oct 24, 4:57 am, iam deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I have often wondered what the new testament of the bible would be > > > > > like if > > > > > you removed the parts that are in reality are made up short stories > > > > > used to > > > > > sell a bill of goods. An example(s) being the nativity stories, the > > > > > resurrection (misunderstood,) the writings of Saul Of Tarsus the > > > > > book of > > > > > revelations. to name a few > > > > > > I wonder if a book (it would probably be very short) getting rid of > > > > > the > > > > > exact interpretation but rather trying to expressed express the ideas > > > > > that > > > > > Jesus the man best wanted to express. I look at our group and the > > > > > atheists > > > > > and agnostics have a very valuable role in working out that validity > > > > > of what > > > > > is being said. There is a definite need to counter balance my own > > > > > beliefs > > > > > and those of other fanatics. > > > > > > To tell the truth this would be a total dream for me. There is an > > > > > event > > > > > astronomically that can be dated like a total solar eclipse over > > > > > Jerusalem > > > > > in 33 CE. I do know that there are religious fanatics in the > > > > > Philippines > > > > > that are crucified (literally) and they regularly survive it. I think > > > > > these > > > > > things need to be taken into account, from what I understand it > > > > > actually > > > > > takes several days to die that way. > > > > > > Here I have to admit I am jealous of the sheer enlightenment of > > > > > spiritual > > > > > knowledge Francis and other members of this group possess. I am > > > > > hoping they > > > > > will take to this idea. > > > > > Allan > > > > > > ( > > > > > ) > > > > > I_D Allan- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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