So, I have a question for the elders of the board. I have a friend who is in a
great job, great relationship, and generally great life. He's curious if he
should go back to school to get a degree. Being someone who never accomplished
a degree, I don't have any relevant advice. Care to offer any?
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Indeed Orn - there is definitely a baby in this bathwater. I would
hope never again to experience the 'Zil Chill' of the former Soviet
states or the grim feelings I've had elsewhere away from these shores,
though we need to understand we cause many of these problems by
failing to achieve more democracy. I'm an old union man, but don't
want to see a return of the old unions - however, a new form of
insured representation for all is possible. If 'democracy' could
produce Hitler we need to know why and how - even Mugabe was once
voted in for real.
On 1 Oct, 17:41, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> As critical as I am of the ‘democracy’ that I know, mostly with the
> intention of retaining and/or improving it, I am quite thankful that
> this lifetime was not spent in Cambodia or other such countries. The
> current experiment is preferable when a comparison to what is is
> conducted. And, when compared to the codified words “…in order to form
> a more perfect union…”, the ongoing process is seen and must be
> recognized. I do.
>
> On Oct 1, 9:26 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > We like to think of the UK Parliament as the 'mother of parliaments'.
> > We are much the same in sport - always resting on our history of
> > inventing the games others now beat us at! Most civilised countries
> > seem more democratic than Britain, but I only ever visit or live in
> > them as an alien. In France, in the late 70's I discovered my
> > illusions were just that as police and troops laid waste to a shanty
> > town with bulldozers and I found out how casual labour was treated (I
> > was undercover on a drugs bust). The US has always seemed so much
> > more democratic with all kinds of elections we don't have - yet it
> > generally is not.
> > I actually find a lot not to like about democracy - the Athenian one
> > had a privileged Demos and practised ethnic cleansing of an economic
> > kind we see in Domesday Books all over the world - and there are
> > obvious problems such as asking the uninformed to make decisions.
> > This latter is a key problem as it lets in charisma and all the old
> > techniques of persuasion because we can always rely on the majority
> > not to be able to follow the argument. The Germans were probably the
> > best educated, most scientific, most cultured people on the planet
> > when they voted for Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler may have seized
> > power illegitimately, but Germans voted for him in droves in elections
> > around the country. Other countries had their own Nazis in
> > considerable numbers. We will vote for any dross - this should make
> > us rethink democracy.
>
> > On 1 Oct, 17:00, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Sadly, I couldn’t get tickets to hear Noam here in Portland this
> > > week.
>
> > > And, I have found that he gets much of what you say we should fear
> > > right Neil. He just isn’t quite as charismatic in his brand of
> > > ‘evangelism’ as some though.
>
> > > I fear we in the Colonies are at the cusp of yet another Civil War…
> > > only not so ‘Civil’. The ‘best’ political action my disillusioned
> > > brain can imagine at this time, other than a true ‘new’ tea party, is
> > > to fulfill the ancient cry of ‘Throw the bums out!’. I was skeptical
> > > about the actuality of the BO regime from the start and now that the
> > > ‘party in power’ has vetoed health care for we the people and has
> > > reinvested in the demonstrated failed practice of sexual abstinence as
> > > well as a continued hegemony, it really is time for change. Eisenhower
> > > was much wiser.
>
> > > As a sort of Paul Revere of the day, I call upon ‘we the people’ to
> > > see that every political person in power is replaced...with 3rd party
> > > individuals if possible. There is no other way to gain political
> > > attention today. This even though I fully embrace Noam’s notion of
> > > Anarchy:
>
> > > “…Anarchism, in my view, is an expression of the idea that the burden
> > > of proof is always on those who argue that authority and domination
> > > are necessary. They have to demonstrate, with powerful argument, that
> > > that conclusion is correct. If they cannot, then the institutions they
> > > defend should be considered illegitimate. How one should react to
> > > illegitimate authority depends on circumstances and conditions: there
> > > are no formulas. …” – Chomsky
>
> > > (more at:http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/19961223.htm)
>
> > > On Oct 1, 7:24 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Chomsky has been right for many years. The academy in which he and
> > > > others flourished is long gone - we are all, at our relative levels of
> > > > ability in the margins as resistance fighters. I would put the
> > > > argument personally given limited space. An old guy (undoubtedly a
> > > > 'comrade') turned up at our door a couple of days ago. Sue and I are
> > > > died in the wool lefties and he was asking if Labour could rely on our
> > > > vote. I didn't want to upset the old chap. Our MP isn't fit for the
> > > > job, our councillors useless, almost childish. Britain is broken -
> > > > there is no system worth voting in. We'd like to be able to vote in a
> > > > space for radical reform for the establishment of actual democracy.
> > > > We're nearly 60 years old, let down by false promises and the default
> > > > return of business as usual however we vote. We are at war and can't
> > > > even vote against this. Etc. etc. ... even the old 'sense' of a
> > > > pragmatic choice in a dirty world doesn't work on us - this was part
> > > > of the broken promises. It's conference season here, with a general
> > > > election coming in 6 months. The old dross is rolled out by all. The
> > > > Prime Minister's wife makes a speech blessing him as 'her hero' - the
> > > > only indication I can draw from this is the public is still regarded
> > > > as gullible and pathetic.
>
> > > > The job is one of anarchy - the tearing down of the lies on 'free
> > > > trade'. 'democracy' and so on - but the aim is not anarchy (strictly
> > > > meaning leaderlessness) - it's about new construction free of the
> > > > chronic fears we have about each other. What Chomsky isn't good on is
> > > > recognising much we should be fearful of - crap worlds of the veil,
> > > > 'dumb idealism', the ease in which tyranny can establish unless we get
> > > > armed services and policing right, 'dumb meritocracy' and so on.
> > > > I saw the NATO speech on Afghanistan today - the general could almost
> > > > have been a sociologist in explaining how 'our' (not in my name)
> > > > actions rub against Afghan culture. Building a well in the wrong
> > > > place with the wrong labour leads to changes in the balance of power,
> > > > killing two insurgents may lead to another ten joining up for
> > > > revenge. Is any of this surprising when our own legal systems favour
> > > > the rich, exclude most of us from justice and can't even free disabled
> > > > people from local 'terrorists' who bully them to suicide? Much of
> > > > this was discussed by Hobbes and Thomas Moore. How many coups start
> > > > as temporary takeovers that will bring democracy (the dictatorship of
> > > > the proletariat syndrome)? How did 'democracy' as we might grudgingly
> > > > admit to take root? Not by watching television and playing video
> > > > games.
>
> > > > If I finish my books and they sell well, what will I do? Get myself a
> > > > 'stable of broads', flash cars and learn to fiddle in the comfort of
> > > > watching the world burn from my comfort away from it all? I want none
> > > > of such 'success' - though know its temptations. Many live in
> > > > conditions where much more minor temptations can be used to effect
> > > > 'revolution'. I would rather die than be the white man on the beach
> > > > in Kenya forking out a few dollars for sex with a local child. In
> > > > fact, I don't have to travel far to discover this 'down the road', or
> > > > in the actions of those defending Polanski. Polanski gets a bevy of
> > > > lawyers, the kid he raped at 13 did not get help when she needed it.
>
> > > > Democracy is not simply about empowering all - it requires a wrecking
> > > > of the illegitimate use of authority whilst building means to our
> > > > security itself properly amenable to law and due process. I have seen
> > > > 'hunger thieves' too often and our systems render us all 'hungry' for
> > > > the wrong things - there is a need to work out how to base Chomsky on
> > > > what humans currently are - in order that we might be something very
> > > > different.
>
> > > > On 1 Oct, 14:06, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > This latest article from Noam Chomsky - Crisis and Hope: Theirs and
> > > > > Ours
>
> > > > > Of all of the crises that afflict us, the growing democratic deficit
> > > > > may be the most severe. Unless it is reversed, Roy's forecast may
> > > > > prove accurate. The conversion of democracy to a performance with the
> > > > > public as mere spectators -- hardly a distant possibility -- might
> > > > > have truly dire consequences...
>
> > > > > An immediate goal is to pressure Congress to permit organizing rights,
> > > > > the Employee Free Choice Act that was promised but seems to be
> > > > > languishing. One short-term goal is to support the revival of a strong
> > > > > and independent labor movement, which in its heyday was a critical
> > > > > base for advancing democracy and human and civil rights, a primary
> > > > > reason why it has been subject to such unremitting attack in policy
> > > > > and propaganda. A longer-term goal is to win the educational and
> > > > > cultural battle that has been waged with such bitterness in the "one-
> > > > > sided class war" that the UAW president perceived far too late. That
> > > > > means tearing down an enormous edifice of delusions about markets,
> > > > > free trade, and democracy that has been assiduously constructed over
> > > > > many years and to overcome the marginalization and atomization of the
> > > > > public so that they can become "participants," not mere "spectators of
> > > > > action," as progressive democratic theoreticians have prescribed.
>
> > > > > In his article, Chomsky lays out several pressing crisis of the day,
> > > > > but concludes that a deficit in democracy is the most severe. The
> > > > > entire article can be seen on his website
> > > > > here:http://www.chomsky.info/articles/200909--.htm
>
> > > > > What do YOU think?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > -
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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