Dammit! Yes, it was. I was emailing from my phone while sitting on a lovely balcony high over the Gulf, having some excellent wine and shrimp cocktail. I tried grabbing the list address from this thread, but apparently my phone decided to use the thread entirely, despite not giving me that impression while I was composing. The topic at hand was the future, and higher education, specifically, the paper, not the knowledge. I've always felt that my accomplishments without a degree were proof enough that one wasn't necessary, even in fields like technology, but a friend was suggesting that to our mutual third friend that even if everything is going well in your life, it should be a priority to go back to school and get his degree, because it was something that could greatly help secure his future. The downside, of course, being the investment in time and money to do so. The advice provided by you and Don so far does indeed help add some meat to the conversation.
On Sun, Oct 25, 2009 at 12:37 AM, ornamentalmind <[email protected]>wrote: > > ...and, changing the topic from "Reviving Democracy' to 'Future' must > have been accidental, right? :-) > > On Oct 24, 9:29 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > “So, I have a question for the elders of the board. I have a friend > > who is in a great job, great relationship, and generally great life. > > He's curious if he should go back to school to get a degree. Being > > someone who never accomplished a degree, I don't have any relevant > > advice. Care to offer any?” – CJ > > > > Chris, this of course is a very personal and situational issue. Having > > acknowledged that fact, I will report that many friends of mine who > > have completed their thesis and received at least a PhD say they would > > never do it again even though most are ‘using’ their training. > > > > Also, the majority of those I know who have quit jobs, gained higher/ > > further education say that when they return to try entering the > > workforce again, two situations exist: 1) They have great difficulty > > just getting a job let alone one as ‘good’ as the one they earlier > > quit and 2) They say that their new degree didn’t help at all in > > getting a new job, in fact, many say it actually hurt! Strange, I > > know. > > > > Things may have been different a decade or more ago; I am talking > > about the last few years here. > > > > On a personal note, I returned to gain more training in many different > > areas over my lifetime and, as I’ve said too many times, have attended > > 12 universities. In most cases the impulse was for personal growth and/ > > or gaining new information rather than credentials. Programming is one > > example, accounting another. The former gave me the skills to be able > > to consult in Florida, NYC, California and Oregon. In other words, I > > was able to help put supper on the table from the experiences. Of > > course, I have done that playing billiards too! > > > > The latter, accounting, gave me the chops to become a CFO and acquire > > recent employment in positions I enjoy and can live on. I won’t go > > into nontraditional education and stuff from decades ago because I’m > > sure it isn’t relevant to this discussion. > > > > So, for me, I am happy to have added new skills to my bag of tricks, > > however, in these last two examples, I was working full time while > > attending night school. Not everyone is cut out for this path. > > > > Hope it helps. In the end, your friend will have to just jump off of > > the cliff and make a guess…that is unless he is omniscient! > > > > On Oct 24, 6:07 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > So, I have a question for the elders of the board. I have a friend who > is in a great job, great relationship, and generally great life. He's > curious if he should go back to school to get a degree. Being someone who > never accomplished a degree, I don't have any relevant advice. Care to offer > any? > > > > > [ Attached Message ]From:archytas <[email protected]>To:"\"Minds > Eye\"" <[email protected]>Date:Thu, 1 Oct 2009 15:44:29 -0700 > (PDT)Local:Thurs, Oct 1 2009 3:44 pmSubject:[Mind's Eye] Re: Reviving > Democracy > > > > > Indeed Orn - there is definitely a baby in this bathwater. I would > > > hope never again to experience the 'Zil Chill' of the former Soviet > > > states or the grim feelings I've had elsewhere away from these shores, > > > though we need to understand we cause many of these problems by > > > failing to achieve more democracy. I'm an old union man, but don't > > > want to see a return of the old unions - however, a new form of > > > insured representation for all is possible. If 'democracy' could > > > produce Hitler we need to know why and how - even Mugabe was once > > > voted in for real. > > > > > On 1 Oct, 17:41, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > As critical as I am of the ‘democracy’ that I know, mostly with the > > > > intention of retaining and/or improving it, I am quite thankful that > > > > this lifetime was not spent in Cambodia or other such countries. The > > > > current experiment is preferable when a comparison to what is is > > > > conducted. And, when compared to the codified words “…in order to > form > > > > a more perfect union…”, the ongoing process is seen and must be > > > > recognized. I do. > > > > > > On Oct 1, 9:26 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > We like to think of the UK Parliament as the 'mother of > parliaments'. > > > > > We are much the same in sport - always resting on our history of > > > > > inventing the games others now beat us at! Most civilised > countries > > > > > seem more democratic than Britain, but I only ever visit or live in > > > > > them as an alien. In France, in the late 70's I discovered my > > > > > illusions were just that as police and troops laid waste to a > shanty > > > > > town with bulldozers and I found out how casual labour was treated > (I > > > > > was undercover on a drugs bust). The US has always seemed so much > > > > > more democratic with all kinds of elections we don't have - yet it > > > > > generally is not. > > > > > I actually find a lot not to like about democracy - the Athenian > one > > > > > had a privileged Demos and practised ethnic cleansing of an > economic > > > > > kind we see in Domesday Books all over the world - and there are > > > > > obvious problems such as asking the uninformed to make decisions. > > > > > This latter is a key problem as it lets in charisma and all the old > > > > > techniques of persuasion because we can always rely on the majority > > > > > not to be able to follow the argument. The Germans were probably > the > > > > > best educated, most scientific, most cultured people on the planet > > > > > when they voted for Hitler and the Nazis. Hitler may have seized > > > > > power illegitimately, but Germans voted for him in droves in > elections > > > > > around the country. Other countries had their own Nazis in > > > > > considerable numbers. We will vote for any dross - this should > make > > > > > us rethink democracy. > > > > > > > On 1 Oct, 17:00, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sadly, I couldn’t get tickets to hear Noam here in Portland this > > > > > > week. > > > > > > > > And, I have found that he gets much of what you say we should > fear > > > > > > right Neil. He just isn’t quite as charismatic in his brand of > > > > > > ‘evangelism’ as some though. > > > > > > > > I fear we in the Colonies are at the cusp of yet another Civil > War… > > > > > > only not so ‘Civil’. The ‘best’ political action my disillusioned > > > > > > brain can imagine at this time, other than a true ‘new’ tea > party, is > > > > > > to fulfill the ancient cry of ‘Throw the bums out!’. I was > skeptical > > > > > > about the actuality of the BO regime from the start and now that > the > > > > > > ‘party in power’ has vetoed health care for we the people and has > > > > > > reinvested in the demonstrated failed practice of sexual > abstinence as > > > > > > well as a continued hegemony, it really is time for change. > Eisenhower > > > > > > was much wiser. > > > > > > > > As a sort of Paul Revere of the day, I call upon ‘we the people’ > to > > > > > > see that every political person in power is replaced...with 3rd > party > > > > > > individuals if possible. There is no other way to gain political > > > > > > attention today. This even though I fully embrace Noam’s notion > of > > > > > > Anarchy: > > > > > > > > “…Anarchism, in my view, is an expression of the idea that the > burden > > > > > > of proof is always on those who argue that authority and > domination > > > > > > are necessary. They have to demonstrate, with powerful argument, > that > > > > > > that conclusion is correct. If they cannot, then the institutions > they > > > > > > defend should be considered illegitimate. How one should react to > > > > > > illegitimate authority depends on circumstances and conditions: > there > > > > > > are no formulas. …” – Chomsky > > > > > > > > (more at:http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/19961223.htm) > > > > > > > > On Oct 1, 7:24 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Chomsky has been right for many years. The academy in which he > and > > > > > > > others flourished is long gone - we are all, at our relative > levels of > > > > > > > ability in the margins as resistance fighters. I would put the > > > > > > > argument personally given limited space. An old guy > (undoubtedly a > > > > > > > 'comrade') turned up at our door a couple of days ago. Sue and > I are > > > > > > > died in the wool lefties and he was asking if Labour could rely > on our > > > > > > > vote. I didn't want to upset the old chap. Our MP isn't fit > for the > > > > > > > job, our councillors useless, almost childish. Britain is > broken - > > > > > > > there is no system worth voting in. We'd like to be able to > vote in a > > > > > > > space for radical reform for the establishment of actual > democracy. > > > > > > > We're nearly 60 years old, let down by false promises and the > default > > > > > > > return of business as usual however we vote. We are at war and > can't > > > > > > > even vote against this. Etc. etc. ... even the old 'sense' of > a > > > > > > > pragmatic choice in a dirty world doesn't work on us - this was > part > > > > > > > of the broken promises. It's conference season here, with a > general > > > > > > > election coming in 6 months. The old dross is rolled out by > all. The > > > > > > > Prime Minister's wife makes a speech blessing him as 'her hero' > - the > > > > > > > only indication I can draw from this is the public is still > regarded > > > > > > > as gullible and pathetic. > > > > > > > > > The job is one of anarchy - the tearing down of the lies on > 'free > > > > > > > trade'. 'democracy' and so on - but the aim is not anarchy > (strictly > > > > > > > meaning leaderlessness) - it's about new construction free of > the > > > > > > > chronic fears we have about each other. What Chomsky isn't > good on is > > > > > > > recognising much we should be fearful of - crap worlds of the > veil, > > > > > > > 'dumb idealism', the ease in which tyranny can establish unless > we get > > > > > > > armed services and policing right, 'dumb meritocracy' and so > on. > > > > > > > I saw the NATO speech on Afghanistan today - the general could > almost > > > > > > > have been a sociologist in explaining how 'our' (not in my > name) > > > > > > > actions rub against Afghan > > > > ... > > > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
