The system will protect itself versus the those of an individual- that's universal. Perhaps the vow of chastity enlarges the scowl but I fail to see the sins of the RCC as any different from the casting couch, incest, rape as a reward of conquest, the cabin boy, the sex slave trade, etc. The upshot is that the RCC lost a great deal of respect, money and valuable real estate plus now has a rep for attracting derelicts into Holy Orders- nuns were considered spinsters. Read Chaucer (let off a rape charge- thank heavens, for the sake of the English language!)
On Dec 2, 9:01 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > I think that this is much to the point of what is "true", Francis. > Because we are not in the head or heart of Murray, Moriarty etc., we > cannot know if they are acting on what they know to be true, > justifying their position with what they think can cover up what is > true, or formulating a relative truth based on personality disorder. > Because we can see the destructive results of the actions of these > priests, those that abused children and those that abused public > trust, we feel they cannot be true to what we know as loving > behavior. They may be true examples of how viewpoints limited to > selfish and material aspects also have limited experience of absolute > truths. Unfortunately, these are the folks that we expect to lead us > in our spiritual journeys if we are Roman Catholic, yet they cannot > really, because they are so limited they have no real experience of > the unity consciousness that Christ leads us into. If they really > believe that they acted correctly, they have not yet found the > intrinsic moral system that leads to truthful action, (When you have > lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM, and that I do > nothing on my own authority. Instead, I speak only what the Father has > taught me.) This cannot include following orders from the Vatican > that allow harm to others. > > Understanding what others find to be "true" necessitates understanding > their viewpoint and arrival at the truth. Each state and stage of > consciousness represents a different viewpoint. Some of those > viewpoints are survival level, self serving, and far from universal. > > On Dec 2, 9:14 am, fran the man <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 2 Dez., 13:48, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I felt the deep, abiding, heart pang while reading Francis' post. It > > > reminded me of the movie the Mission, with Robert De Niro, which I > > > think beautifully portrayed the moral conflict of decent men in the RC > > > church that are following instruction of authority. The fact that the > > > story of Francis involves children makes the damage unimaginable in > > > terms of shattered lives. Knowing some of the people involved, > > > whether they were pedophiles or simply turned away from the truth of > > > the terrible acts, must make that guilt we all feel about the > > > injustice we cannot influence all the more real. In the end, we can > > > only do what we are called to do in the moment, and give voice > > > immediately to what we find true. The Logos is more powerful than we > > > can imagine. There is limitless humility in that part of us that > > > connects us all brings us to the reckoning that we cannot judge if we > > > are to accept ourselves in the whole of mankind, and the god within. > > > Perhaps slightly off topic, but as a reaction to your post, Molly, a > > small example, of what you describe as as "do[ing] what we are called > > to do in the moment and giv[ing] voice immediately to what we find > > true..." I posted this elsewhere on the web, on the blog of an Irish > > friend of mine who has reasons to be more immediately concerned with > > what is going on in the Irish Catholic Church. It concerns the bishops > > whose handling of paedophile abuse was criticized specifically by the > > commission: > > > "Men like Murray, Moriarty, et al. - and I would include Des Connell > > in this group - are, most probably, very sure that they acted > > correctly, acording to their own lights. For them, their loyalty to > > the institutional church is genuinely primary. The Catholic Church, > > including indivisibly its institutional component, is the infallible > > voice of God on earth. They serve it, and that is their whole > > justification. > > > Des Connell taught me philosophy at UCD and I feel I know a bit about > > what makes him tick. He can use the artifice of the "mental > > reservation" and believe that this is morally correct, because he can > > justify it in the edifice of scholastic theology, the truth of which > > he is convinced. For this reason he can simultaneously be horrified at > > the abuse of children by churchmen, and at the same time subjugate it > > to the supremacy of his duty, as he sees it, to serve the church and > > protect it from harm. > > > Donal Murray seems to think similarly. If I understand his reaction to > > the criticism of him in the Murphy report correctly, he wants to wait > > for feedback from the priests and people of his diocese. If he gets > > the impression they think he should resign, he may even do so. > > > But both Connell and Murray, as well as the others, have got it > > basically wrong. This is not a question of their responsibility to the > > Church, or their obedience to the pope (I'm expecting that there will > > be smokescreens raised about the so-called Holy Father not accepting > > some offered resignations), or their own theological justifications. > > It is a question of their moral responsibility to the victims of the > > abusers. > > > As a result of their positions, they were faced with difficult but > > ultimately clear moral decisions and they chose wrongly. All the > > extenuating arguments regarding damage to the church, loyalty to the > > pope, the prospect of horrifying scandals do not change this (and the > > truth - at least some of it - has come out anyway). > > > It happened on their watch and they let the victims down. No > > theological arguments, no opinions of the priests and laity of the > > Limerick diocese, no wishes of the pope can change this. And this is > > why Murray and the others must resign and Connell must go much further > > than he has in terms of unreserved apology. Apart from any > > considerations of the victims and their feelings, it is a question of > > their own moral integrity. In this sense, to use the terminology they > > (not I) would use, it's a question of saving their own souls. > > > I fear most of them do not seem capable of discovering the basic > > backbone within themselves to save themselves morally - spiritually, > > if you like. And this is, perhaps, the most damning judgement of all > > on the system which produced them, formed them and which they have > > served. > > > I am relieved and glad not to be in any way associated with that > > system any more. And, at the same time (thinking also of my idealistic > > young self who entered the Dominican Order 32 years ago and spent nine > > fruitful and formative years there) saddened that the institutional > > Catholic Church has so managed to corrupt and pervert what was, > > potentially, a beautiful ideal." > > > With regard to the Vatican and the pope, Lee, the silence has - up to > > now - been deafening. Worse, requests for Vatican co-operation from > > the investigating commission, through the papal nunciature in Dublin, > > were ignored because, according to the Vatican, "they were not > > submitted through proper diplomatic channels." Diplomatic protocol > > apparently stipulates that such requests should have come through > > official government channels. Words simply fail me to express what I > > think of this position. > > > Francis- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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