I enjoyed it, and was especially glad to hear his opinion on the herd following Sarah Palin as they would a fascist who expresses their rage for them yet leads them with war mongering. In the half hour before the Zinn interview, Moyer interviewed a couple of grass roots organizations gaining momentum for political change, especially in the financial sector. I was encouraged to hear that many of these organizations are collaborating.
On Dec 14, 10:36 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > By the way, the program Zinn put together that was aired last night > was great. Even though I have lived through much of the time periods > he reviewed, I had forgotten much. Anyone else see it? > > On Dec 14, 2:47 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Reasoning is defeasible when the corresponding argument is rationally > > compelling but not deductively valid. The truth of the premises of a > > good defeasible argument provide support for the conclusion, even > > though it is possible for the premises to be true and the conclusion > > false. In other words, the relationship of support between premises > > and conclusion is a tentative one, potentially defeated by additional > > information. (Stanford EP) > > > I'd guess most reasoning is defeasible, and this is a reason > > politicians and other worthies behind the wall of police batons don't > > want people speaking up with obvious facts and why they won't tell us > > what their reasoning really is. > > > On 14 Dec, 08:56, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > The issue is one of breaking the lines. Almost everyone I speak to is > > > sick of politicians not answering questions. It's been very > > > noticeable over the last couple of years that our UK politicians don't > > > even show up when the going gets tough. The media is essentially > > > broken through briefing systems and becomes a place for spin > > > propaganda. People on the streets are somehow already not 'the > > > people', but groups to be herded and arrested by cops who are now > > > cowardly, hardly people with direct prerogatives under the Crown. > > > Our current defence minister is known as 'Bullshit Bob Ainsworth' and > > > we see him telling us 'why we are in Iraq-Afghanistan' without ever > > > getting any understanding of why we are really there. Our troops die, > > > yet this is never because of under-funding, yet elsewhere we hear of > > > constant under-funding and mad botches by the MOD. In the Iran-Iraq > > > war, they killed about a million of themselves and our guess is a > > > similar number, probably more Iraqis have been killed through > > > sanctions and the war we have instigated. At 'smaller' levels, jobs > > > as people like Orn and I knew them in terms of availability and the > > > chance to move between them, have largely gone and our cowardly cops > > > and a range of new local authority-based people supposedly there to > > > enforce reasonable law and order and help improve quality of life are > > > failing. They are cowardly because they report into 'performance > > > systems' almost totally protected from independent investigation and > > > the voices of those being hurt. They don't speak out. As Lee said > > > somewhere, 'we now sack dinner ladies, don't we'. > > > To take to the streets is to be subjected, automatically, to > > > derogation as a 'protester', to being silenced so as those in power > > > can eat their meals on us in peace. > > > > Zinn has been right for at least 30 years. I could fill the page with > > > others and say that management techniques are at the perverse heart of > > > it all. Our most popular chattering class comedies make money and > > > reputations for a few in tilting at the humbug. > > > > In all this, we don't seem to recognise that leadership is the problem > > > because it's our way of washing our hands of the problems. One might > > > say, of the world generally, people don't think but breed. The key > > > problem is that the real problems are never on the table and even if > > > they were, we lack decision-making processes that keep them there and > > > under review. They are always complicated. I want world peace, but I > > > don't want to cede current military power to another bunch who would > > > be even less democratic and simply come looking for us. > > > I found myself laughing and crying the other day when some media hack > > > was talking about how we can encourage our best to enter Parliament. > > > My immediate vision was not of the jive turkeys we do elect, but of a > > > motley crew with pitch forks. The statement was made as though we > > > have a history of our best getting into the place. One can obviously > > > say much the same of these bweankers who claim to be so good at > > > banking through divine right. We need to stop doing ourselves down > > > through soaking-up a whole load of dross about 'ability'. We could > > > make politics and other areas of real power a province of the ordinary > > > - work we all share. We might wonder, in the 21st century, why we > > > should have to go on the streets to make our points heard. The 'Age > > > of Information'? I think not. There are still no effective ways to > > > make collective points electronically. Bullshit Bob and others should > > > not just have to respond to media hacks, but directly to us. In this > > > sense we have no collective democracy, only a manipulated system. I > > > have to say people have also been manipulated onto the streets - a > > > very old politics. Berlin, between the wars would be a classic. > > > Politicians tend to think they are decent people working with a 'dirty > > > hands - real world' philosophy the rest of us don't understand. They > > > are, in fact, dangerous clowns operating on very partial information > > > about the world and themselves. We all need to show up to tell them. > > > They already know and will do everything they can to stop us from > > > revealing their crass lack of awareness, a common feature of board > > > rooms and dictators' chambers. > > > > On 13 Dec, 16:43, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Two of my favorite contemporaries. Howard Zinn has been instrumental > > > > in the US since the Vietnam War and civil rights movement in promoting > > > > peaceful protests by grass roots efforts and public relations of those > > > > movements. > > > > > On Dec 13, 6:43 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > “…Zinn is spot on, so where do we go from here? As he said, people > > > > > rise > > > > > up and then they disappear.” – SD > > > > > > Ahh, yes. Thanks for the clarification. This is something oft asked of > > > > > Chomsky and as unsatisfying as his responses may be to many, they > > > > > appear to be the best found so far…that is IF one wishes to ‘do’ > > > > > anything and not just retreat into isolation and/or a theological > > > > > stupor. Seek out his advice if necessary. > > > > > > On Dec 13, 3:38 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I mean for the people to collectively do something, to challenge > > > > > > authority, to change their world, as suggested by Zinn. > > > > > > > I'm all for the complacency to end, the passivity, apathy towards > > > > > > social stressors. > > > > > > > Zinn is spot on, so where do we go from here? As he said, people > > > > > > rise > > > > > > up and then they disappear. > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 5:26 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > As to what's next, in what context? There is his documentary > > > > > > > tonight... > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2:46 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Excellent !! 5 Stars!! > > > > > > > > > What's next? > > > > > > > > > On Dec 12, 9:59 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Howard Zinn on Bill Moyers Journal 1 of > > > > > > > > > 3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIERifyW_aI&feature=sdig&et=1260654949.96 > > > > > > > > > > 2 of > > > > > > > > > 3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLHDsZZ50Q&feature=sdig&et=1260654949.96 > > > > > > > > > > 3 of > > > > > > > > > 3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tfkiUtB3_0&feature=sdig&et=1260654949... > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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