I know many people who developed a lot through grass roots stuff and those who just used it as a first step on the ladder to business as usual.
On 15 Dec, 13:58, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > Zinn briefly spoke about the need for public relations of grass roots > efforts and the failure of mainstream media to cover them. I learned > the hard way that Subversify Magazine is not a good alternative to > MSM, and don't really know publications that are. Getting cozy with > the press to get the necessary coverage is a big part of the job. It > is certainly a critical part of the moment and often defines success. > The organization of the movements depends on cohesive leadership, and > often falls short here. Zinn had an optimistic view, and felt that in > the US anyway, the current grass roots organizations are strong enough > to be heard in government and evoke change. I think that it is at > this grass roots level that differing ideologies come together, as Vam > suggested, learning to empathize with each other while working on a > common cause. Civil rights movements that create solidarity and unity > among diverse groups to promote human rights have been successful in > the US, but taken strong leadership from the top. > > On Dec 15, 8:43 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > What we need is to be able to vote for such substantial changes and > > get this mainstreamed in our democratic systems. I've long been > > convinced that the history of leadership is a history of disaster and > > involves a humiliation for ordinary folk. British Airways staff > > threaten 12 days of strike action at the moment and the BBC brought on > > some dreadful cow complaining her trip to Mauritius is under threat by > > these oiks who should be grateful they have any jobs in the current > > economic crisis. A person spoke and made me feel the strike should go > > on just to teach her some empathy! Twits like her creep in for > > 'balance' but we hear little from a wider grass roots. It now turns > > out that BA has been running by stealing from its pension fund to such > > an extent that it is worth only about half what it owes in pension > > contributions not made. What struck me about the programme is that we > > don't need complex theory in politics, just some effective > > opportunities to bypass the censorship of organised politics and > > media. > > > On 14 Dec, 19:47, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I enjoyed it, and was especially glad to hear his opinion on the herd > > > following Sarah Palin as they would a fascist who expresses their rage > > > for them yet leads them with war mongering. In the half hour before > > > the Zinn interview, Moyer interviewed a couple of grass roots > > > organizations gaining momentum for political change, especially in the > > > financial sector. I was encouraged to hear that many of these > > > organizations are collaborating. > > > > On Dec 14, 10:36 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > By the way, the program Zinn put together that was aired last night > > > > was great. Even though I have lived through much of the time periods > > > > he reviewed, I had forgotten much. Anyone else see it? > > > > > On Dec 14, 2:47 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Reasoning is defeasible when the corresponding argument is rationally > > > > > compelling but not deductively valid. The truth of the premises of a > > > > > good defeasible argument provide support for the conclusion, even > > > > > though it is possible for the premises to be true and the conclusion > > > > > false. In other words, the relationship of support between premises > > > > > and conclusion is a tentative one, potentially defeated by additional > > > > > information. (Stanford EP) > > > > > > I'd guess most reasoning is defeasible, and this is a reason > > > > > politicians and other worthies behind the wall of police batons don't > > > > > want people speaking up with obvious facts and why they won't tell us > > > > > what their reasoning really is. > > > > > > On 14 Dec, 08:56, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > The issue is one of breaking the lines. Almost everyone I speak to > > > > > > is > > > > > > sick of politicians not answering questions. It's been very > > > > > > noticeable over the last couple of years that our UK politicians > > > > > > don't > > > > > > even show up when the going gets tough. The media is essentially > > > > > > broken through briefing systems and becomes a place for spin > > > > > > propaganda. People on the streets are somehow already not 'the > > > > > > people', but groups to be herded and arrested by cops who are now > > > > > > cowardly, hardly people with direct prerogatives under the Crown. > > > > > > Our current defence minister is known as 'Bullshit Bob Ainsworth' > > > > > > and > > > > > > we see him telling us 'why we are in Iraq-Afghanistan' without ever > > > > > > getting any understanding of why we are really there. Our troops > > > > > > die, > > > > > > yet this is never because of under-funding, yet elsewhere we hear of > > > > > > constant under-funding and mad botches by the MOD. In the Iran-Iraq > > > > > > war, they killed about a million of themselves and our guess is a > > > > > > similar number, probably more Iraqis have been killed through > > > > > > sanctions and the war we have instigated. At 'smaller' levels, jobs > > > > > > as people like Orn and I knew them in terms of availability and the > > > > > > chance to move between them, have largely gone and our cowardly cops > > > > > > and a range of new local authority-based people supposedly there to > > > > > > enforce reasonable law and order and help improve quality of life > > > > > > are > > > > > > failing. They are cowardly because they report into 'performance > > > > > > systems' almost totally protected from independent investigation and > > > > > > the voices of those being hurt. They don't speak out. As Lee said > > > > > > somewhere, 'we now sack dinner ladies, don't we'. > > > > > > To take to the streets is to be subjected, automatically, to > > > > > > derogation as a 'protester', to being silenced so as those in power > > > > > > can eat their meals on us in peace. > > > > > > > Zinn has been right for at least 30 years. I could fill the page > > > > > > with > > > > > > others and say that management techniques are at the perverse heart > > > > > > of > > > > > > it all. Our most popular chattering class comedies make money and > > > > > > reputations for a few in tilting at the humbug. > > > > > > > In all this, we don't seem to recognise that leadership is the > > > > > > problem > > > > > > because it's our way of washing our hands of the problems. One > > > > > > might > > > > > > say, of the world generally, people don't think but breed. The key > > > > > > problem is that the real problems are never on the table and even if > > > > > > they were, we lack decision-making processes that keep them there > > > > > > and > > > > > > under review. They are always complicated. I want world peace, > > > > > > but I > > > > > > don't want to cede current military power to another bunch who would > > > > > > be even less democratic and simply come looking for us. > > > > > > I found myself laughing and crying the other day when some media > > > > > > hack > > > > > > was talking about how we can encourage our best to enter Parliament. > > > > > > My immediate vision was not of the jive turkeys we do elect, but of > > > > > > a > > > > > > motley crew with pitch forks. The statement was made as though we > > > > > > have a history of our best getting into the place. One can > > > > > > obviously > > > > > > say much the same of these bweankers who claim to be so good at > > > > > > banking through divine right. We need to stop doing ourselves down > > > > > > through soaking-up a whole load of dross about 'ability'. We could > > > > > > make politics and other areas of real power a province of the > > > > > > ordinary > > > > > > - work we all share. We might wonder, in the 21st century, why we > > > > > > should have to go on the streets to make our points heard. The 'Age > > > > > > of Information'? I think not. There are still no effective ways to > > > > > > make collective points electronically. Bullshit Bob and others > > > > > > should > > > > > > not just have to respond to media hacks, but directly to us. In > > > > > > this > > > > > > sense we have no collective democracy, only a manipulated system. I > > > > > > have to say people have also been manipulated onto the streets - a > > > > > > very old politics. Berlin, between the wars would be a classic. > > > > > > Politicians tend to think they are decent people working with a > > > > > > 'dirty > > > > > > hands - real world' philosophy the rest of us don't understand. > > > > > > They > > > > > > are, in fact, dangerous clowns operating on very partial information > > > > > > about the world and themselves. We all need to show up to tell > > > > > > them. > > > > > > They already know and will do everything they can to stop us from > > > > > > revealing their crass lack of awareness, a common feature of board > > > > > > rooms and dictators' chambers. > > > > > > > On 13 Dec, 16:43, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Two of my favorite contemporaries. Howard Zinn has been > > > > > > > instrumental > > > > > > > in the US since the Vietnam War and civil rights movement in > > > > > > > promoting > > > > > > > peaceful protests by grass roots efforts and public relations of > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > movements. > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 6:43 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > “…Zinn is spot on, so where do we go from here? As he said, > > > > > > > > people > > > > > > > > rise > > > > > > > > up and then they disappear.” – SD > > > > > > > > > Ahh, yes. Thanks for the clarification. This is something oft > > > > > > > > asked of > > > > > > > > Chomsky and as unsatisfying as his responses may be to many, > > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > > appear to be the best found so far…that is IF one wishes to ‘do’ > > > > > > > > anything and not just retreat into isolation and/or a > > > > > > > > theological > > > > > > > > stupor. Seek out his advice if necessary. > > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 3:38 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I mean for the people to collectively do something, to > > > > > > > > > challenge > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
