What we need is to be able to vote for such substantial changes and get this mainstreamed in our democratic systems. I've long been convinced that the history of leadership is a history of disaster and involves a humiliation for ordinary folk. British Airways staff threaten 12 days of strike action at the moment and the BBC brought on some dreadful cow complaining her trip to Mauritius is under threat by these oiks who should be grateful they have any jobs in the current economic crisis. A person spoke and made me feel the strike should go on just to teach her some empathy! Twits like her creep in for 'balance' but we hear little from a wider grass roots. It now turns out that BA has been running by stealing from its pension fund to such an extent that it is worth only about half what it owes in pension contributions not made. What struck me about the programme is that we don't need complex theory in politics, just some effective opportunities to bypass the censorship of organised politics and media.
On 14 Dec, 19:47, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > I enjoyed it, and was especially glad to hear his opinion on the herd > following Sarah Palin as they would a fascist who expresses their rage > for them yet leads them with war mongering. In the half hour before > the Zinn interview, Moyer interviewed a couple of grass roots > organizations gaining momentum for political change, especially in the > financial sector. I was encouraged to hear that many of these > organizations are collaborating. > > On Dec 14, 10:36 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > By the way, the program Zinn put together that was aired last night > > was great. Even though I have lived through much of the time periods > > he reviewed, I had forgotten much. Anyone else see it? > > > On Dec 14, 2:47 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Reasoning is defeasible when the corresponding argument is rationally > > > compelling but not deductively valid. The truth of the premises of a > > > good defeasible argument provide support for the conclusion, even > > > though it is possible for the premises to be true and the conclusion > > > false. In other words, the relationship of support between premises > > > and conclusion is a tentative one, potentially defeated by additional > > > information. (Stanford EP) > > > > I'd guess most reasoning is defeasible, and this is a reason > > > politicians and other worthies behind the wall of police batons don't > > > want people speaking up with obvious facts and why they won't tell us > > > what their reasoning really is. > > > > On 14 Dec, 08:56, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The issue is one of breaking the lines. Almost everyone I speak to is > > > > sick of politicians not answering questions. It's been very > > > > noticeable over the last couple of years that our UK politicians don't > > > > even show up when the going gets tough. The media is essentially > > > > broken through briefing systems and becomes a place for spin > > > > propaganda. People on the streets are somehow already not 'the > > > > people', but groups to be herded and arrested by cops who are now > > > > cowardly, hardly people with direct prerogatives under the Crown. > > > > Our current defence minister is known as 'Bullshit Bob Ainsworth' and > > > > we see him telling us 'why we are in Iraq-Afghanistan' without ever > > > > getting any understanding of why we are really there. Our troops die, > > > > yet this is never because of under-funding, yet elsewhere we hear of > > > > constant under-funding and mad botches by the MOD. In the Iran-Iraq > > > > war, they killed about a million of themselves and our guess is a > > > > similar number, probably more Iraqis have been killed through > > > > sanctions and the war we have instigated. At 'smaller' levels, jobs > > > > as people like Orn and I knew them in terms of availability and the > > > > chance to move between them, have largely gone and our cowardly cops > > > > and a range of new local authority-based people supposedly there to > > > > enforce reasonable law and order and help improve quality of life are > > > > failing. They are cowardly because they report into 'performance > > > > systems' almost totally protected from independent investigation and > > > > the voices of those being hurt. They don't speak out. As Lee said > > > > somewhere, 'we now sack dinner ladies, don't we'. > > > > To take to the streets is to be subjected, automatically, to > > > > derogation as a 'protester', to being silenced so as those in power > > > > can eat their meals on us in peace. > > > > > Zinn has been right for at least 30 years. I could fill the page with > > > > others and say that management techniques are at the perverse heart of > > > > it all. Our most popular chattering class comedies make money and > > > > reputations for a few in tilting at the humbug. > > > > > In all this, we don't seem to recognise that leadership is the problem > > > > because it's our way of washing our hands of the problems. One might > > > > say, of the world generally, people don't think but breed. The key > > > > problem is that the real problems are never on the table and even if > > > > they were, we lack decision-making processes that keep them there and > > > > under review. They are always complicated. I want world peace, but I > > > > don't want to cede current military power to another bunch who would > > > > be even less democratic and simply come looking for us. > > > > I found myself laughing and crying the other day when some media hack > > > > was talking about how we can encourage our best to enter Parliament. > > > > My immediate vision was not of the jive turkeys we do elect, but of a > > > > motley crew with pitch forks. The statement was made as though we > > > > have a history of our best getting into the place. One can obviously > > > > say much the same of these bweankers who claim to be so good at > > > > banking through divine right. We need to stop doing ourselves down > > > > through soaking-up a whole load of dross about 'ability'. We could > > > > make politics and other areas of real power a province of the ordinary > > > > - work we all share. We might wonder, in the 21st century, why we > > > > should have to go on the streets to make our points heard. The 'Age > > > > of Information'? I think not. There are still no effective ways to > > > > make collective points electronically. Bullshit Bob and others should > > > > not just have to respond to media hacks, but directly to us. In this > > > > sense we have no collective democracy, only a manipulated system. I > > > > have to say people have also been manipulated onto the streets - a > > > > very old politics. Berlin, between the wars would be a classic. > > > > Politicians tend to think they are decent people working with a 'dirty > > > > hands - real world' philosophy the rest of us don't understand. They > > > > are, in fact, dangerous clowns operating on very partial information > > > > about the world and themselves. We all need to show up to tell them. > > > > They already know and will do everything they can to stop us from > > > > revealing their crass lack of awareness, a common feature of board > > > > rooms and dictators' chambers. > > > > > On 13 Dec, 16:43, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Two of my favorite contemporaries. Howard Zinn has been instrumental > > > > > in the US since the Vietnam War and civil rights movement in promoting > > > > > peaceful protests by grass roots efforts and public relations of those > > > > > movements. > > > > > > On Dec 13, 6:43 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > “…Zinn is spot on, so where do we go from here? As he said, people > > > > > > rise > > > > > > up and then they disappear.” – SD > > > > > > > Ahh, yes. Thanks for the clarification. This is something oft asked > > > > > > of > > > > > > Chomsky and as unsatisfying as his responses may be to many, they > > > > > > appear to be the best found so far…that is IF one wishes to ‘do’ > > > > > > anything and not just retreat into isolation and/or a theological > > > > > > stupor. Seek out his advice if necessary. > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 3:38 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > I mean for the people to collectively do something, to challenge > > > > > > > authority, to change their world, as suggested by Zinn. > > > > > > > > I'm all for the complacency to end, the passivity, apathy towards > > > > > > > social stressors. > > > > > > > > Zinn is spot on, so where do we go from here? As he said, people > > > > > > > rise > > > > > > > up and then they disappear. > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 5:26 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > :-) > > > > > > > > > As to what's next, in what context? There is his documentary > > > > > > > > tonight... > > > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2:46 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Excellent !! 5 Stars!! > > > > > > > > > > What's next? > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 12, 9:59 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Howard Zinn on Bill Moyers Journal 1 of > > > > > > > > > > 3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIERifyW_aI&feature=sdig&et=1260654949.96 > > > > > > > > > > > 2 of > > > > > > > > > > 3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNLHDsZZ50Q&feature=sdig&et=1260654949.96 > > > > > > > > > > > 3 of > > > > > > > > > > 3http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tfkiUtB3_0&feature=sdig&et=1260654949... > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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