That'll all stop the forthcoming war in Pakistan dead Orn. Over here, our former Director of Public Prosecutions, a man I think with a drugs possession conviction moons ago, has described Tony Blair as a sycophant broadly 'pissed on self-aggrandisement and power' as leading us into the war for these reasons whilst deceiving the public and criticised the enquiry he was in front of as not asking the hard questions. This was grimly obvious to Sue and I at the time, as it is grimly obvious now, that the former DPP did not tell the truth to power then or blow the whistle as he now says everyone else should. Back closer to home, our Incompetent Poodles of Constabulary Corruption have discovered wrongdoing in 1994 in the case of Stephen Lawrence and that our own Greater Manchester Police were negligent in the death of Katie Summers, stabbed to death by a former partner. The usual business as usual excuses are being poured out. I'd swear by almighty god Orn, if I didn't fear an invasion by US atheists, that the system has one stuck up it.
On 18 Dec, 17:11, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > An example of activism today: > > http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/12/dc-circuit-takes-up-preside... > > and this, which includes the full text of the motion and memorandum in > support: > > http://religionclause.blogspot.com/2009/12/newdow-asks-dc-circuit-to-... > > http://legaltimes.typepad.com/blt/2009/12/appeals-court-denies-challe... > > http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2408689/postshttp://www.topix.com/us/federal-court-dc/2009/12/on-appeal > > On Dec 18, 5:35 am, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I've seen a couple of documentaries lately about US Vietnam war > > protests. The US vs John Lennon is worth the price of admission even > > if you are not a fan of his later music. To hear John tell of the way > > that Abbe Hoffman used and misused his words until Lennon publicly > > split from Hoffman and began his own version of a peace movement. The > > Life and Times of Alan Ginsberg, showed some rare footage from the > > University of Chicago of the Democratic Convention riots in Chicago. > > While Abbe Hoffman and his crew were mixing it up with the cops and > > military outside the convention, the poet (Howl) Alan Ginsberg and > > tens of thousands held a peaceful prayer vigil farther north in the > > city, in Lincoln Park. > > > Without going into the right or wrong of it, in the end, all > > contributed to the voice that was heard over many years of mounting > > protest. > > > On Dec 18, 4:50 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Our governments and press actually hide wars from us over here. We > > > had a big war in Indonesia for a couple of decades that drew very > > > little attention, no doubt because it was us doing most of the killing > > > (over 30,000). The 'War of Disconsolate Sheep' was reported by one > > > BBC guy mostly. This war was prefaced by US refusal to supply > > > aircraft parts to Argentina and some dodgy intelligence-led disruption > > > of their equipment buying. I have seen no credible footage from Iraq > > > or Afghanistan of what we really did and are doing. The coverage of > > > Vietnam in the UK was similar to that in the US - this was the last of > > > the real reporting. > > > I agree entirely with Molly on the need for real protest (people were > > > killed by cops). The US Embassy in Grosvenor Square was under regular > > > siege here. Footage of these events was shown to me in 'how not to do > > > public order policing' sessions, all forgotten in the Miners' Strike. > > > Blair Peach, a New Zealander, died in London. Lee is probably a bit > > > too young to remember. The right-wing view now is that protests > > > stopped the needed victories. > > > Student protest has gone, despite there being many more of them. > > > These days they are supposed to learn how to become bureaucrats in > > > the armies of oppression, not try to change them. We teach > > > selfishness. Orn's List is easily agreed by most in here I suspect, > > > but it is hidden in News and Double Speaks (not his). I believe key > > > ideologies-in-use are involved, not least the notion that the West > > > (which includes Japan and maybe China) must stay on top or we will > > > find ourselves out-gunned - this means we must win economically to > > > have the resources for R & D to stay ahead (economics and diplomacy as > > > 'war by other means') and in turn that 'protest' is an internal danger > > > of fools who don't understand the 'big picture' and lead us like lambs > > > to the slaughter. This is a very powerful ideology and we hear bits > > > of it across threads in here. I am by no means dismissive of it > > > myself. Sino-Soviet Paradises were nothing of the kind. The question > > > is whether there is a more honest way to genuine democracies of public > > > scrutiny. > > > It is only the 'burnt-out cop' in me that rails a bit against Molly's > > > words, perhaps because they are right in-themselves, but the problem > > > is one of getting wider reflection and dialogue (which I know she > > > supports). Any criticism here is as much self-projection of fears of > > > my own complexity and wishes I could do 'Dirty Harry by peaceful > > > means', as of the ideas. Chris has jumped in often enough with the > > > basic statement that 'protest industries' have their own interests and > > > these are often about niche marketing. I fear a recreation of The > > > Guardians amongst language only a few can understand, a mere place of > > > conscience amongst business as usual. In grim form this is the Church > > > of England. > > > History in England is such that we are learning today that we nuked a > > > fair bit of South Australia in the 1950s. The facts of British > > > history are gruesome. Yet no politician dares say this, and indeed > > > they all roll out the need to be proud to be British, suggesting the > > > ideologies can be relied on to run deep and in crushing majority. We > > > need to be able to demand a New Deal and to engage in practical > > > projects that are not just initiatives. We need something beyond the > > > literacy we are all rather good at, I suspect a 'new language'. > > > > On 17 Dec, 17:52, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Cheers to you, my friend. > > > > > On Dec 17, 12:19 pm, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Cheers Moll's. > > > > > > On 17 Dec, 16:57, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Here is a good read: > > > > > > >http://www.answers.com/topic/vietnam-antiwar-movement > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 11:37 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > In fact did any protests stop US involment in the Vietnam war? > > > > > > > > On 17 Dec, 16:12, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > civil rights for the African Americans in the US, or migrant > > > > > > > > workers, > > > > > > > > or women, did not happen over night. One protest did not stop > > > > > > > > US > > > > > > > > involvement in the Viet Nam war. Each movement took years, many > > > > > > > > marches, many people, many organizations. Getting PR for it > > > > > > > > all has > > > > > > > > always been a problem, and something each organization must > > > > > > > > deal with > > > > > > > > to be effective. > > > > > > > > > On Dec 17, 4:24 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sorry Molly I have to disagree with you here. Did you see > > > > > > > > > any news > > > > > > > > > covargae of Copenhagan yesterday? Specifily the > > > > > > > > > demonstrators, > > > > > > > > > talking about how they don't want big corperations making > > > > > > > > > money from > > > > > > > > > 'Green Issues' and how it should be all of us banding > > > > > > > > > together to make > > > > > > > > > real changes at grass roots level. > > > > > > > > > > Very interseting and something that I can certianly get with. > > > > > > > > > How > > > > > > > > > much notice was taken of these people? Our news focused more > > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > police/protester clash. These people made a lot of noise, > > > > > > > > > now lets > > > > > > > > > wait and see what effect on the those with the actual power > > > > > > > > > to make > > > > > > > > > changes it has, if any. > > > > > > > > > > The only political power that the avarage man in the street > > > > > > > > > has ever > > > > > > > > > had is one of revolution. > > > > > > > > > > On 15 Dec, 18:00, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are only politically impotent when we do not > > > > > > > > > > involve > > > > > > > > > > ourselves in politics in a way direct enough to allow our > > > > > > > > > > influence on > > > > > > > > > > the political matters that effect our lives. We are all > > > > > > > > > > presented > > > > > > > > > > with myriad opportunities to become directly involved with > > > > > > > > > > grass roots > > > > > > > > > > politics, and from there, our sphere of influence expands > > > > > > > > > > in direct > > > > > > > > > > relationship to our unifiying efforts. Staying in our > > > > > > > > > > ivory towers > > > > > > > > > > complaining about what we think is wrong in the world leads > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > impotence. Participation leads to empowerment. A reality > > > > > > > > > > check of > > > > > > > > > > our expectations may be in order. > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 5:43 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I think those of us that care will try Neil, and the > > > > > > > > > > > othyers will just > > > > > > > > > > > carry on as normal. How do you make somebody care? I > > > > > > > > > > > guess you > > > > > > > > > > > can't. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 22:57, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > That seems to be the case Lee. I don't know how we > > > > > > > > > > > > beat it, just that > > > > > > > > > > > > we should try. Yet trying hurts because they are so > > > > > > > > > > > > smarmy. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 14:29, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good question man. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Voter apathy? Personaly I feel this impotentance > > > > > > > > > > > > > myself. I can feel > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rage building every time I see one of the smarmy > > > > > > > > > > > > > little sods on > > > > > > > > > > > > > TV, yep I mean politicians. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What angers me the most is the aviodance of answering > > > > > > > > > > > > > the question put > > > > > > > > > > > > > to you. Instead they take the question as an > > > > > > > > > > > > > oppertunity to slag off > > > > > > > > > > > > > the opposition(okay I can expect a certian amount of > > > > > > > > > > > > > this with a > > > > > > > > > > > > > general election due) or answer a question they > > > > > > > > > > > > > really wish to answer, > > > > > > > > > > > > > but not the one asked. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why do I feel impotent? Because I know no matter > > > > > > > > > > > > > which way I vote, > > > > > > > > > > > > > due to the ammount of people that just wont bother, > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the ammount of > > > > > > > > > > > > > people that will vote not according to their > > > > > > > > > > > > > conciounse, but in line > > > > > > > > > > > > > with what the media portrays, well I fear we'll have > > > > > > > > > > > > > no more than a > > > > > > > > > > > > > repeat of what has been going on for as long as I can > > > > > > > > > > > > > remember. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People get fed up with fed up with the sleaze of > > > > > > > > > > > > > present goverment as > > > > > > > > > > > > > portayed in the media, and just vote the opposition > > > > > > > > > > > > > in, no matter who > > > > > > > > > > > > > that opposition is. Then perhaps 8, or 10, or 12 > > > > > > > > > > > > > years later people > > > > > > > > > > > > > get pissed off with the sleaze > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
