That is really strange I was looking up the movie Compassion of Christ..dj On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:03 PM, <[email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > wrote:
> Today's Topic Summary > > Group: http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/topics > > - Are Muslims Making You > Nervous?<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_group_thread_0>[8 > Updates] > - Can God be mocked? Do blasphemy laws make > sense?<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_group_thread_1>[6 > Updates] > - the definition of > evil<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_group_thread_2>[4 > Updates] > > Topic: Are Muslims Making You > Nervous?<http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/t/f9226b1784c7fcde> > > archytas <[email protected]> Jan 04 09:06AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > I have heard the 'criminal elements' language before. It only > popularised Irish Republican fund-raising in the US at the time. No > one in here raising PC Molly - from someone active in this thread at > it. It is an answer to nothing as it is so easily feigned. Chaz a > poor authority because he was banned from this thread - seems only a > good reason to leave. OTT on occasion, the poor boy was ill. What > can't tolerate someone like that has little occasion to pat itself on > the back. If we want to know what people are generally thinking, what > about a transcript from some pub conversations - but no, we are too > precious. We will make up our own minds on what others think from > inside our little worlds. > Very decent people in the Republican movement were branded > 'criminal'. Decent enough to shake my hand and work together now. > Not that long ago, people we are now calling Islamic terrorists we > heroes of the time, throwing out imperial colonialism - now they bomb > our cosy lives under much the same freedom fighting rules as before. > It was Islamic then and it is now. Not that the Muslims were the only > ones sensible enough to try and throw out the imperialists. > I've seen first hand how Mullahs and other mosque figures will say one > thing in public whilst encouraging mobs to attack women not wearing > the black bag. The attacks are on 'whores' and are obscene. All the > middle eastern revolutions used Islam until established, after which > terror becomes the authority and the mosques are purged. > There have been scurrilous and obvious attacks on Slip here and you > are too self-absorbed to know yourselves as perpetrators. I doubt > anyone in this state could know what PC is and how it operates and > especially how vicious it is. Here's to the families of our troops > and every innocent Muslim fallen (which I guess is a ratio of more > than 20:1). My apologies to them for our lazy lack of understanding. > I guess they will not be interested in the crucifixion of Chaz at the > altar of the precious who get others to do the dirty work. It's my > cardboard city run turn tonight in Manchester. 10,000 former UK > service people are homeless and there are a few down by the old docks. > Some scuz who can't put three words together without an insult in foul > language emerging has given me enough meat for a week. A BNP > supporter enough vegetables. Stew is better than soup in these > temperatures. I'd ask you to look at your prissy 'arguments', but I > may as well ask you to be out all night with me over the next few > days. Two black Muslims from Africa will be. Apologies are due to > Slip, though he's man enough not to need them. Nietzsche once > apologised to a donkey for Descartes Slip. I'll apologise to you for > these worthies. It's not known whether Nietzsche actually took the > lash for the animal, but I would. No doubt 'they' will only think I > am calling you a donkey. You will know I'm insulting you for certain > and smile, mon vieux Lapin. > > > > > frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 09:38AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > Fascinating! > > I restarted this thread a few days ago (after a 12 day hiatus) with a > reference to the attack on Kurt Westergaard (the author of the > infamous Muhammad caricature) last week. For those who need reminding, > the following link shows the original newpaper page, which provoked so > much indignation throughout Islam worldwide, Westergaard's cartoon is > the one second from the right at the top: > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Jyllands-Posten-pg3-article-in-Sept-30-2005-edition-of-KulturWeekend-entitled-Muhammeds-ansigt.png > > Since then, the discussion that has been pursued here has mostly > focussed on Abdulmutallab's attempted bombing of the plane to Detroit. > Only Neil and Pat have directly addressed the issue of the attempted > murder of Westergaard. This suggests, perhaps, that the majority of > our US-based contributors are primarily concerned with strongly > americanocentric perspectives. > > Abdulmutallab's attack is, after all, no surprise - it is an attempt > to emulate the deeds of the 9/11 terrorists and shows, as Justin > points out, just how little the so-called War on Terror has achieved > in over eight years. > > The Westergaard issue, however, raises other questions. One I find > interesting is the position taken by major religions, particularly - > but not exclusively - Islam, with regard to freedom of opinion and > expression, especially when these opinions are critical towards, or > downright hostile to the religions in question. This is a complex > question, reflected in the fact that many western countries have anti- > blasphemy laws on their statute books. (In fact, Ireland, my own > native country, passed new legislation in this area only last year: > http://bocktherobber.com/2009/04/blasphemous-libel.) > > Personally, I have problems with the view that religious sensibilities > need particular legal protection, particularly given the fact that > clerics of all religions and denominations routinely describe non- > believers (atheists and agnostics) as inherently immoral or amoral. > The very idea of blasphemy seems incoherent to me - how can you insult > an omnipotent being? Can God be mocked at all? > > Francis > > > > > > > > Molly <[email protected]> Jan 04 09:42AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > I suppose with language like scurrilous, prissy, demeaning and absurd, > we are not trying to clarify our positions and gain understanding but > rather score points. I would say the points here have been made time > and again, and those who will listen have heard. Whether or not we > agree with other groups and their cultures, what we say and how we say > it does have an impact, here with each other and in the larger > context. This hot topic seems to be at the top of the list here in > the US in every medium, I am not surprised that it is in this group as > well. > > > > > > fiddler <[email protected]> Jan 04 10:20AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > Actually, that example of child brides is from here in America, a > mormon separatists group. > > > and kill without qualm. And, they are heard and broadcast, hence take > > on a prominence which all the good people put together have not even > a > > fraction. > > The problem with considering some of a group to not represent the > whole is a problem religions have had for millennia. The problem with > islam is that the "good" ones still show up at rallies and parades > along with the "bad" ones. If I show up at a parade to support a > cause, and I see banners proclaiming death and destruction, I quickly > leave as I do not want to lend credence or support to them. > Muslims do not do this. Every time there is a "religion of peace" > parade, hundreds of people burn effigies and flags, carry signs that > call for the end of any country that is not islamic or sharia, and > promise murder and destruction. Thousands follow them, and then > proclaim that they don't stand for those ideas. It cannot be had both > directions. > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Z3bCj29pc > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs&feature=related > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4&feature=related > These people are trying to get (and have partially succeeded in > Britain) to have sharia law, with massive support from a majority of > Britains 1.5 million muslims. > > > > > > > On Jan 4, 6:58 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > basics well ! > > > " If Vam represents the good muslim, then more power to him. He is > not > > in the majority." > > The palestinian problem remained for three decades, > > > > > Molly <[email protected]> Jan 04 10:56AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > "This suggests, perhaps, that the majority of > our US-based contributors are primarily concerned with strongly > americanocentric perspectives." Francis > > Wow. It seems to me quite a leap to get to this conclusion. Is it > possible that in the light of this discussion, the reference was > overlooked? I don't remember seeing it as a big part of this > discussion, and was trying to respond to the larger point and I saw > this as associating all terrorist activity with all Muslims, and the > repercussions of this type of logic and discourse. I missed your > reference, it is true. Do you really think that means that I am > primarily concerned with strongly americanocentric perspectives? > Could it be, instead, that I preferred not to be distracted by (what I > thought to be) ancillary issues to the discussion? Or that I > preferred to myself reference the news that I personally had credible > sources to site? > > Is your question "can God be mocked" or should there be laws in any > country that penalize citizens for doing so? > > > > > > frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:05AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > > > Is your question "can God be mocked" or should there be laws in any > > country that penalize citizens for doing so? > > Put that way, Molly, both I suppose! I think I'll open a new thread on > the question, though ... > > Francis > > > > > Slip Disc <[email protected]> Jan 04 02:19PM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > Your clear sighted level minded observations are appreciated. I too, > though without response in my last retort, thought that deeming Chaz > intellectually languid based upon banishment for linguistic violations > to be completely and utterly preposterous. If I would have known that > being wary would elicit a bombastic sermon on the evils of uneasiness, > I might have refrained from expressing it. Somehow I had this notion > of placid dialogue, unaware that it might rile some nervous systems > and cause such turbidity. I'm certainly not, as recognized, in need > of apologia, however, the prattle has become tiring and sitting on the > sidelines watching the show seems more appealing. If you hear me > braying, it most likely will be due to someone trying to pin "a tale" > on me, a tall tale at that, one that reveals tell tale signs of > mongering and possible arson related activities in crowded operatic > halls, incitement of street riots in need of tear gas to quell the > melees, oh the gnashing of teeth in this winter of discontent. > > > > > > > > fiddler <[email protected]> Jan 04 06:28PM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > should read: "lend credibility" for those keeping score... > > > > > Topic: Can God be mocked? Do blasphemy laws make > sense?<http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/t/d9f9cd4326caa7c9> > > frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:13AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > Given that there was an attempted murder on the Danish cartoonist Kurt > Westergaard last week, and that the subject has come up in the > "Muslims making you nervous" thread, I thought I'd open a new thread > to discuss this particular issue. Molly asked two questions: > > > > > > Is your question "can God be mocked" or should there be laws in any > > country that penalize citizens for doing so? > > Two questions, really. > So I'll start this with Molly's usual question, what do YOU think? > > Francis > > > > > frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:16AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > And here's today's leading article from "The Times": > > > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article6974766.ece > > > > > > Don Johnson <[email protected]> Jan 04 01:39PM -0600 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > "I'm not sure what the definition of blasphemy is but I know it when I > see it." > > And a cartoon of a prophet with a bomb strapped to his head ain't it. > It comes down to letting a ruling body decide what the definition is > going to be. I'm not fond of that notion. I say let folks say and > print what they like and let the readers decide. I would be against > subsidizing such enterprises however. > > IMHO, bowing to the threats and intimidation of a few crazy Islamists > is no way to run a country. I'd rather take the fight to them and > work openly as well as clandestinely to bring freedom to the countries > that support such oppression. Iran, in particular, seems to be > screaming for help. > > -Don > > > > > > > frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 12:15PM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > Let's not confine this to Islam, though. Monty Python's "Life of > Brian" was banned in many places and countries. And both Godard's "Je > vous salue, Marie" [Hail Mary] and Scorcese's "Last Temptation of > Christ" provoked vehement protests from many Christians, some of it > violent. > > Personally, the most gratuitously pornographic film I've seen in > recent years is Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" (and I don't think > much of claims concerning its historical accuracy either). I wouldn't > dream of banning it, however. > > Francis > > > > > > gabbydott <[email protected]> Jan 04 03:22PM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > If God cannot be bribed, which is what I learned, God can react very > mocky and therefore blasphemy laws like protection of our environment > make a lot of sense. > > > > > > fiddler <[email protected]> Jan 04 05:17PM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > >... threats and intimidation of a few crazy Islamists... > > A few? Millions of people rioted in dozens of countries on this topic > of one small newspaper printing a small cartoon lightly mocking the > "prophet." > > > > > > > > Topic: the definition of > evil<http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/t/f89f02ddf6c5c2c2> > > Slip Disc <[email protected]> Jan 04 08:19AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > Your dealing with evil through personal issues and perception. In > modernist terms we really have expanded the term "evil" to represent > subjective views. I've heard people refer to others as evil just > based on their looks and others refer to animals as evil. Therefore > the definitive is no longer as condensed as when initially coined and > used rather loosely. Personally I have no reference for it other than > for something that seems demonic but even with that it is a word that > I don't recall using with any frequency. At this point in time I > would have to agree with you that evil doesn't exist in any pure sense > but has become just another word that people toss around without much > thought. People may be influenced by something external which leads > them to act out a heinous crime, that act in itself may be considered > to be evil but the person may not. This is the basis of many > reformation and rehabilitative initiatives in the judicial system. > > > > > > Molly <[email protected]> Jan 04 08:47AM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > "Goodness has no opposite. Most of us consider goodness as the > opposite of the bad or evil and so throughout history in any culture > goodness has been considered the other face of that which is brutal. > So man has always struggled against evil in order to be good; but > goodness can never come into being if there is any form of violence or > struggle." - Letters to the Schools vol I - Krishnamurti > > > > > > Don Johnson <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:34AM -0600 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > Evil is a concept. Nothing and no one is all evil but I believe > actions, specifically motivations for actions are inherently evil. > The Joker's exploits in the Dark Knight fit the bill nicely. He is > also quite mad. His purpose is Chaos and to prove his notion that > humanity is just as evil as he sees himself to be. If any of you > headshrinkers out there haven't seen this movie you should check it > out. Both the hero and the villain have serious self destructive > issues but choose opposing methods to deal with them. Very > interesting. Plus it has explosions and fast cars/bikes/planes. > Cool. > > Good is also a concept. Sometimes evil is perpetrated from a desire > to do good. Chairman Mao might be the poster boy for this irony. > Pol Pot deserves mention as well. > > It's a useful word. I use it but mostly to describe specific actions > or ideologies that ruin lives and economies for no good reason other > then political gain. It frustrates me to no end that what seems > obvious to me is totally misconstrued or misunderstood by so many > other people. Where I see evil another sees retribution or justice. > Like so many, many things; It's relative. > > -Don > > > > > > > > gabbydott <[email protected]> Jan 04 02:47PM -0800 > ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> > > No, Just. I disagree with you equating "Being" with "Good" in your > understanding of mysticism. All these stories are appeals to the Good > in you to never to give up fighting over the Evil - the fallen off the > Good, in linear speaking. Very simply speaking, too, of course. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
