Well I would not mock God...but yes there is mocking...hanging Santa on a Cross..and many other examples...Now I would not mock God or stimulate in demostration of God..dj..
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:05 PM, dj Briscoe <[email protected]>wrote: > That is really strange I was looking up the movie Compassion of Christ..dj > > > On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 7:03 PM, > <[email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> Today's Topic Summary >> >> Group: http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/topics >> >> - Are Muslims Making You >> Nervous?<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_group_thread_0>[8 >> Updates] >> - Can God be mocked? Do blasphemy laws make >> sense?<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_group_thread_1>[6 >> Updates] >> - the definition of >> evil<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_group_thread_2>[4 >> Updates] >> >> Topic: Are Muslims Making You >> Nervous?<http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/t/f9226b1784c7fcde> >> >> archytas <[email protected]> Jan 04 09:06AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> I have heard the 'criminal elements' language before. It only >> popularised Irish Republican fund-raising in the US at the time. No >> one in here raising PC Molly - from someone active in this thread at >> it. It is an answer to nothing as it is so easily feigned. Chaz a >> poor authority because he was banned from this thread - seems only a >> good reason to leave. OTT on occasion, the poor boy was ill. What >> can't tolerate someone like that has little occasion to pat itself on >> the back. If we want to know what people are generally thinking, what >> about a transcript from some pub conversations - but no, we are too >> precious. We will make up our own minds on what others think from >> inside our little worlds. >> Very decent people in the Republican movement were branded >> 'criminal'. Decent enough to shake my hand and work together now. >> Not that long ago, people we are now calling Islamic terrorists we >> heroes of the time, throwing out imperial colonialism - now they bomb >> our cosy lives under much the same freedom fighting rules as before. >> It was Islamic then and it is now. Not that the Muslims were the only >> ones sensible enough to try and throw out the imperialists. >> I've seen first hand how Mullahs and other mosque figures will say one >> thing in public whilst encouraging mobs to attack women not wearing >> the black bag. The attacks are on 'whores' and are obscene. All the >> middle eastern revolutions used Islam until established, after which >> terror becomes the authority and the mosques are purged. >> There have been scurrilous and obvious attacks on Slip here and you >> are too self-absorbed to know yourselves as perpetrators. I doubt >> anyone in this state could know what PC is and how it operates and >> especially how vicious it is. Here's to the families of our troops >> and every innocent Muslim fallen (which I guess is a ratio of more >> than 20:1). My apologies to them for our lazy lack of understanding. >> I guess they will not be interested in the crucifixion of Chaz at the >> altar of the precious who get others to do the dirty work. It's my >> cardboard city run turn tonight in Manchester. 10,000 former UK >> service people are homeless and there are a few down by the old docks. >> Some scuz who can't put three words together without an insult in foul >> language emerging has given me enough meat for a week. A BNP >> supporter enough vegetables. Stew is better than soup in these >> temperatures. I'd ask you to look at your prissy 'arguments', but I >> may as well ask you to be out all night with me over the next few >> days. Two black Muslims from Africa will be. Apologies are due to >> Slip, though he's man enough not to need them. Nietzsche once >> apologised to a donkey for Descartes Slip. I'll apologise to you for >> these worthies. It's not known whether Nietzsche actually took the >> lash for the animal, but I would. No doubt 'they' will only think I >> am calling you a donkey. You will know I'm insulting you for certain >> and smile, mon vieux Lapin. >> >> >> >> >> frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 09:38AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> Fascinating! >> >> I restarted this thread a few days ago (after a 12 day hiatus) with a >> reference to the attack on Kurt Westergaard (the author of the >> infamous Muhammad caricature) last week. For those who need reminding, >> the following link shows the original newpaper page, which provoked so >> much indignation throughout Islam worldwide, Westergaard's cartoon is >> the one second from the right at the top: >> >> >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/75/Jyllands-Posten-pg3-article-in-Sept-30-2005-edition-of-KulturWeekend-entitled-Muhammeds-ansigt.png >> >> Since then, the discussion that has been pursued here has mostly >> focussed on Abdulmutallab's attempted bombing of the plane to Detroit. >> Only Neil and Pat have directly addressed the issue of the attempted >> murder of Westergaard. This suggests, perhaps, that the majority of >> our US-based contributors are primarily concerned with strongly >> americanocentric perspectives. >> >> Abdulmutallab's attack is, after all, no surprise - it is an attempt >> to emulate the deeds of the 9/11 terrorists and shows, as Justin >> points out, just how little the so-called War on Terror has achieved >> in over eight years. >> >> The Westergaard issue, however, raises other questions. One I find >> interesting is the position taken by major religions, particularly - >> but not exclusively - Islam, with regard to freedom of opinion and >> expression, especially when these opinions are critical towards, or >> downright hostile to the religions in question. This is a complex >> question, reflected in the fact that many western countries have anti- >> blasphemy laws on their statute books. (In fact, Ireland, my own >> native country, passed new legislation in this area only last year: >> http://bocktherobber.com/2009/04/blasphemous-libel.) >> >> Personally, I have problems with the view that religious sensibilities >> need particular legal protection, particularly given the fact that >> clerics of all religions and denominations routinely describe non- >> believers (atheists and agnostics) as inherently immoral or amoral. >> The very idea of blasphemy seems incoherent to me - how can you insult >> an omnipotent being? Can God be mocked at all? >> >> Francis >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Molly <[email protected]> Jan 04 09:42AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> I suppose with language like scurrilous, prissy, demeaning and absurd, >> we are not trying to clarify our positions and gain understanding but >> rather score points. I would say the points here have been made time >> and again, and those who will listen have heard. Whether or not we >> agree with other groups and their cultures, what we say and how we say >> it does have an impact, here with each other and in the larger >> context. This hot topic seems to be at the top of the list here in >> the US in every medium, I am not surprised that it is in this group as >> well. >> >> >> >> >> >> fiddler <[email protected]> Jan 04 10:20AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> Actually, that example of child brides is from here in America, a >> mormon separatists group. >> >> > and kill without qualm. And, they are heard and broadcast, hence >> take >> > on a prominence which all the good people put together have not even >> a >> > fraction. >> >> The problem with considering some of a group to not represent the >> whole is a problem religions have had for millennia. The problem with >> islam is that the "good" ones still show up at rallies and parades >> along with the "bad" ones. If I show up at a parade to support a >> cause, and I see banners proclaiming death and destruction, I quickly >> leave as I do not want to lend credence or support to them. >> Muslims do not do this. Every time there is a "religion of peace" >> parade, hundreds of people burn effigies and flags, carry signs that >> call for the end of any country that is not islamic or sharia, and >> promise murder and destruction. Thousands follow them, and then >> proclaim that they don't stand for those ideas. It cannot be had both >> directions. >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Z3bCj29pc >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_kyNIevsIs&feature=related >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4&feature=related >> These people are trying to get (and have partially succeeded in >> Britain) to have sharia law, with massive support from a majority of >> Britains 1.5 million muslims. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 4, 6:58 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: >> > basics well ! >> >> > " If Vam represents the good muslim, then more power to him. He is >> not >> > in the majority." >> >> The palestinian problem remained for three decades, >> >> >> >> >> Molly <[email protected]> Jan 04 10:56AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> "This suggests, perhaps, that the majority of >> our US-based contributors are primarily concerned with strongly >> americanocentric perspectives." Francis >> >> Wow. It seems to me quite a leap to get to this conclusion. Is it >> possible that in the light of this discussion, the reference was >> overlooked? I don't remember seeing it as a big part of this >> discussion, and was trying to respond to the larger point and I saw >> this as associating all terrorist activity with all Muslims, and the >> repercussions of this type of logic and discourse. I missed your >> reference, it is true. Do you really think that means that I am >> primarily concerned with strongly americanocentric perspectives? >> Could it be, instead, that I preferred not to be distracted by (what I >> thought to be) ancillary issues to the discussion? Or that I >> preferred to myself reference the news that I personally had credible >> sources to site? >> >> Is your question "can God be mocked" or should there be laws in any >> country that penalize citizens for doing so? >> >> >> >> >> >> frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:05AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> >> > Is your question "can God be mocked" or should there be laws in any >> > country that penalize citizens for doing so? >> >> Put that way, Molly, both I suppose! I think I'll open a new thread on >> the question, though ... >> >> Francis >> >> >> >> >> Slip Disc <[email protected]> Jan 04 02:19PM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> Your clear sighted level minded observations are appreciated. I too, >> though without response in my last retort, thought that deeming Chaz >> intellectually languid based upon banishment for linguistic violations >> to be completely and utterly preposterous. If I would have known that >> being wary would elicit a bombastic sermon on the evils of uneasiness, >> I might have refrained from expressing it. Somehow I had this notion >> of placid dialogue, unaware that it might rile some nervous systems >> and cause such turbidity. I'm certainly not, as recognized, in need >> of apologia, however, the prattle has become tiring and sitting on the >> sidelines watching the show seems more appealing. If you hear me >> braying, it most likely will be due to someone trying to pin "a tale" >> on me, a tall tale at that, one that reveals tell tale signs of >> mongering and possible arson related activities in crowded operatic >> halls, incitement of street riots in need of tear gas to quell the >> melees, oh the gnashing of teeth in this winter of discontent. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> fiddler <[email protected]> Jan 04 06:28PM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> should read: "lend credibility" for those keeping score... >> >> >> >> >> Topic: Can God be mocked? Do blasphemy laws make >> sense?<http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/t/d9f9cd4326caa7c9> >> >> frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:13AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> Given that there was an attempted murder on the Danish cartoonist Kurt >> Westergaard last week, and that the subject has come up in the >> "Muslims making you nervous" thread, I thought I'd open a new thread >> to discuss this particular issue. Molly asked two questions: >> >> >> >> >> > Is your question "can God be mocked" or should there be laws in any >> > country that penalize citizens for doing so? >> >> Two questions, really. >> So I'll start this with Molly's usual question, what do YOU think? >> >> Francis >> >> >> >> >> frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:16AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> And here's today's leading article from "The Times": >> >> >> >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/leading_article/article6974766.ece >> >> >> >> >> >> Don Johnson <[email protected]> Jan 04 01:39PM -0600 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> "I'm not sure what the definition of blasphemy is but I know it when I >> see it." >> >> And a cartoon of a prophet with a bomb strapped to his head ain't it. >> It comes down to letting a ruling body decide what the definition is >> going to be. I'm not fond of that notion. I say let folks say and >> print what they like and let the readers decide. I would be against >> subsidizing such enterprises however. >> >> IMHO, bowing to the threats and intimidation of a few crazy Islamists >> is no way to run a country. I'd rather take the fight to them and >> work openly as well as clandestinely to bring freedom to the countries >> that support such oppression. Iran, in particular, seems to be >> screaming for help. >> >> -Don >> >> >> >> >> >> >> frantheman <[email protected]> Jan 04 12:15PM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> Let's not confine this to Islam, though. Monty Python's "Life of >> Brian" was banned in many places and countries. And both Godard's "Je >> vous salue, Marie" [Hail Mary] and Scorcese's "Last Temptation of >> Christ" provoked vehement protests from many Christians, some of it >> violent. >> >> Personally, the most gratuitously pornographic film I've seen in >> recent years is Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" (and I don't think >> much of claims concerning its historical accuracy either). I wouldn't >> dream of banning it, however. >> >> Francis >> >> >> >> >> >> gabbydott <[email protected]> Jan 04 03:22PM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> If God cannot be bribed, which is what I learned, God can react very >> mocky and therefore blasphemy laws like protection of our environment >> make a lot of sense. >> >> >> >> >> >> fiddler <[email protected]> Jan 04 05:17PM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> >... threats and intimidation of a few crazy Islamists... >> >> A few? Millions of people rioted in dozens of countries on this topic >> of one small newspaper printing a small cartoon lightly mocking the >> "prophet." >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Topic: the definition of >> evil<http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye/t/f89f02ddf6c5c2c2> >> >> Slip Disc <[email protected]> Jan 04 08:19AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> Your dealing with evil through personal issues and perception. In >> modernist terms we really have expanded the term "evil" to represent >> subjective views. I've heard people refer to others as evil just >> based on their looks and others refer to animals as evil. Therefore >> the definitive is no longer as condensed as when initially coined and >> used rather loosely. Personally I have no reference for it other than >> for something that seems demonic but even with that it is a word that >> I don't recall using with any frequency. At this point in time I >> would have to agree with you that evil doesn't exist in any pure sense >> but has become just another word that people toss around without much >> thought. People may be influenced by something external which leads >> them to act out a heinous crime, that act in itself may be considered >> to be evil but the person may not. This is the basis of many >> reformation and rehabilitative initiatives in the judicial system. >> >> >> >> >> >> Molly <[email protected]> Jan 04 08:47AM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> "Goodness has no opposite. Most of us consider goodness as the >> opposite of the bad or evil and so throughout history in any culture >> goodness has been considered the other face of that which is brutal. >> So man has always struggled against evil in order to be good; but >> goodness can never come into being if there is any form of violence or >> struggle." - Letters to the Schools vol I - Krishnamurti >> >> >> >> >> >> Don Johnson <[email protected]> Jan 04 11:34AM -0600 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> Evil is a concept. Nothing and no one is all evil but I believe >> actions, specifically motivations for actions are inherently evil. >> The Joker's exploits in the Dark Knight fit the bill nicely. He is >> also quite mad. His purpose is Chaos and to prove his notion that >> humanity is just as evil as he sees himself to be. If any of you >> headshrinkers out there haven't seen this movie you should check it >> out. Both the hero and the villain have serious self destructive >> issues but choose opposing methods to deal with them. Very >> interesting. Plus it has explosions and fast cars/bikes/planes. >> Cool. >> >> Good is also a concept. Sometimes evil is perpetrated from a desire >> to do good. Chairman Mao might be the poster boy for this irony. >> Pol Pot deserves mention as well. >> >> It's a useful word. I use it but mostly to describe specific actions >> or ideologies that ruin lives and economies for no good reason other >> then political gain. It frustrates me to no end that what seems >> obvious to me is totally misconstrued or misunderstood by so many >> other people. Where I see evil another sees retribution or justice. >> Like so many, many things; It's relative. >> >> -Don >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> gabbydott <[email protected]> Jan 04 02:47PM -0800 >> ^<https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=js&name=js&ver=GRUts-X5mqs.en.&am=!JjYx-7BZhZy5A3Gi0fgEItqzkxPsWn_YCzbmWkVYDNeMvQ#125fc7033ba14917_digest_top> >> >> No, Just. I disagree with you equating "Being" with "Good" in your >> understanding of mysticism. All these stories are appeals to the Good >> in you to never to give up fighting over the Evil - the fallen off the >> Good, in linear speaking. Very simply speaking, too, of course. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<minds-eye%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
