I'm sure there is a gray area fran, one that can be fabricated if we find religious black and white to be mutable but I find that hard to visualize other than a position of riding the fence. It works or it doesn't, I mean its been thousands of years in process. Does human compassion and helping people work or do they foster the groundwork for war? Obviously not, but religion on the other hand has been mired in the muck of innumerable accounts of horrendous events. How many thousands of years have passed since the words were written "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you"? But still it is "Do unto others so they can't do to you" and "Do unto others so they can do for you". Your take is that the problem is a human one and not the fault of religion itself and perhaps if there never were religion man would still be conquering others to bind in slavery. Albeit, religion still doesn't work. The adolescence influence can be said about any number of works that influence children in a positive way. Much of what you say is true which is typical of your posting track record and I concur with your view. The establishment of religious hierarchy set a precedent for others to follow causing massive ramification of groupings and continuous dichotomies of a once wholesome central theme. So ultimately we've resolved to the same conclusion, that being there really isn't any true positive effects of religion. It is just a stagnant pool of dismay swirling in an eddy of constant conflict.
On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > I get a feeling there's a bit of unneccessary either/or thinking here, > Slip. > > I think my posting record here is clear enough to justify my claim > that I do not count as a defender of religion. And there are certainly > religious tendencies which tend to naively glorify or ignore dire > poverty. The poor will always be with you, pie in the sky when you > die, and all that. Indeed, to go further, I see, for example, Mother > Teresa, her work in the streets of Calcutta and her tremendous > worldwide publicity as being extremely problematical. Partly because > of her extremely simplistic attitude towards birth-control, even more > because her complete ignorance of and indifference to the structural > causes of much of the major poverty worldwide. > > But it's more complex than this. I think of the spread of > fundamentalist evangelical Christianity in Latin America and wonder > about its usefullness to some powerful vested interests who are > concerned about combatting another religious iteration, that involved > in Liberation Theology/basic communities/empowerment etc., which has > as part of its religious programme an analysis of sin based on > structural, political causes of poverty. > > And I think of thousands of people, with a basic religious > motiviation, working their asses of in Honduras, Haiti, Congo, etc., > whose projects are about drilling wells, providing medical services, > giving basic education, even teaching people to - oh dear - ask > awkward questions of the rich and powerful. > > Religions, as broad expressions of human inspiration and commonality > are capable of both the sublime and the truly horrid. Because they > are, ultimately, human models of human attempts to make sense of > things in a human way, to inspire and control people, to help them > grow and to stultify them. In my view, religions are part of the > history, the development of humanity; but a part which is better > suited to its childhood and adolescence, something to be grown out of > if we want to achieve maturity. > > To quote one famous religious authority; "When I was a child, I spoke > as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I > became a man, I put away childish things." (Paul of Tarsus, 1 > Corinthians 13:11). > > Francis > > On 8 Feb., 21:00, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I have no anger friend, possibly that is a reflection of your own > > inner turmoil emanating from your interpretation and frustration with > > my post. > > I'm not riled, just in recognition of more religious nonsense clouding > > the real issues of poverty and starvation on planet earth. Why do > > people waste time with religion when all they have to do is stop > > living in denial and take action. > > > It's not any one religion, its all. The xtians tell me "the bible > > say's that we will always have the poor" (Jesus quote) a totally > > misinterpretated scripture but nonetheless one that they will use to > > blindly turn away from really helping someone out of poverty. > > Religion has been around for thousands of years, yet its still the > > same facade and the garbage remains. > > > Religious people are in dream land! > > > That is what I mean by piling it on. Not to be taken personally. > > Seems many have been getting very touchy lately and some are coming > > out of the woodwork with misguided attempts at defending others. > > > On Feb 8, 9:26 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Slip, I couldn't understand the post, even if I sensed your anger. Or, > > > is it angst, frustration ... ? > > > > What exactly are you riled about : Me, Upanishads, India, Slums, > > > Slumdogs, Millionaire, Slumdog Millionaire, Religion < " religious > > > explanation ">, Fraternity, Brotherhood ... ! ! ! ? > > > > Tell you what : I have not caused it. And, there is no way I can cure > > > it. > > > > " ... you pile enough bullshit on top of the bullshit ..." > > > > Is this revealing of a personal angst you hold against me ? I'd have > > > the same advice : I have not caused it. And, there is no way I can > > > cure it. > > > > On Feb 8, 9:51 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yeah, and I'm so very touched by it. Never mind the Upanishads, I'd > > > > rather understand how India supports slum dogs as a viable concept. I > > > > find it not only disgraceful but barbaric, primitive and > > > > hypocritical. The movie "Slum Dog Millionaire" tells the story. Is > > > > there some religious explanation for treating people like the garbage > > > > they live > > > > in?http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=navclient&gfn... > > > > > Fraternity and Brotherhood? As long as you have the right brother? > > > > > I guess if you pile enough bullshit on top of the bullshit you won't > > > > see the bullshit, right? > > > > > On Feb 7, 9:10 pm, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > How many here have read the Upanishads ? ! > > > > > > The two most positive aspects of religion are concepts of fraternity > > > > > and brotherhood, in times when most of the world were barbarian, on > > > > > one hand, and the practice of introspection or self - examination, on > > > > > the other. > > > > > > On Feb 8, 2:50 am, 1CellOfMany <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > There have been many discussions here where the negative results of > > > > > > religion have been brought up as a side issue to another discussion. > > > > > > I would like to start two parallel threads here, one about the good > > > > > > that religions and religious people have done in and for the world, > > > > > > and the other about the bad things that have come from, and been > > > > > > done > > > > > > because of religion. > > > > > > > In this thread, lets concentrate on discussing the positive > > > > > > contributions of religion. The good acts, the positive results of > > > > > > religious teaching, and the positive things that can be learned from > > > > > > reading the "source books" of religion, such as the Bible, the > > > > > > Upanishads, the Koran, and other writings that are considered "Holy" > > > > > > by any religion. > > > > > > > A historical time-line might also be useful, correlating the > > > > > > beginning > > > > > > and growth of each religion to historical events and trends in the > > > > > > places where the religion was spread. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
