> I think I've made it clear in the past: I > have nothing against Baha'i
Actually, I do have a few things against them: Their stance on homosexuality for one. I was being very societally general in my first statement, but I shouldn't have used the term "no problem." Few problems would be more accurate. On Feb 13, 9:32 pm, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > I was addressing research and history, not future domination of any > particular religious group. I think I've made it clear in the past: I > have nothing against Baha'i or Unitarians, but both are minor and may > simply have not had time to be corrupted. Islam started well > enlightened also before diving to the depths of their current > depravity. > > On Feb 13, 8:19 pm, 1CellOfMany <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >The evolutionary advantage is something else entirely. Evolution > > >states that the more likely to breed a creature is, the more likely > > >it's genetic information will be passed down. Since the majority of > > >religions have spent thousands of years killing non-believers... that > > >would tend to make breeding difficult for those that are not inclined > > >to believe in superstition. > > > Your statement is, of course, consonant with the research: It is the > > *group* that benefits from the intra-group cooperation that religion > > strengthens. What you are describing are the evils arising from > > conflict and competition between such groups with those *outside* of > > the group. > > > But what if the *group* was all of mankind and conflict and contention > > were prohibited by the religion? I know the idea seems pretty far- > > fetched, but it *is* the second fastest growing religion in the world, > > and its followers are found in nearly every country on Earth. And as > > for superstition (although I know your views on "God"): > > “The third teaching or principle of Bahá’u’lláh is that religion and > > science are in complete agreement. Every religion which is not in > > accordance with established science is superstition. Religion must be > > reasonable. If it does not square with reason, it is superstition and > > without foundation. ...The sciences and arts, all inventions, crafts, > > trades and their products have come forth from the intellect of man. > - 'Abdu'l-Bahá > > > On Feb 13, 10:06 pm, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > there is > > > > scientific study going on to develop theories of why religions > > > > (particularly religious rituals and moral systems) have been created > > > > and persisted. The studies are, of course, based in the theory of > > > > evolution and natural selection. It is not likely that such > > > > institutions as religions would be so pervasive and persistent in > > > > human cultures if they did not provide an evolutionary advantage to > > > > the groups that hold them. > > > > The origin is simple: Fear of the unknown world, in a world that is > > > capricious and violent. Ascribing anthropomorphic tendencies to nature > > > and elemental concepts provided an illusory method of control, praying > > > to fire not to burn the primitive person makes the primitive mind feel > > > as if it's taken a step toward being burned less. It should be noted > > > that the primary "religions" of the world, until a few hundred years > > > ago, were loose forms of religion like ancestor and spirit worship. > > > Other than that, nature study and worship has dominated the majority > > > of all faith in history. > > > > The evolutionary advantage is something else entirely. Evolution > > > states that the more likely to breed a creature is, the more likely > > > it's genetic information will be passed down. Since the majority of > > > religions have spent thousands of years killing non-believers... that > > > would tend to make breeding difficult for those that are not inclined > > > to believe in superstition. > > > > Even here in America, a believer of a different religion is more > > > respected than non-believers. In many states and counties, one cannot > > > hold office without professing belief in a deity or swearing on a holy > > > book. Thankfully, the religious are no longer legally allowed to > > > murder free-thinkers, atheists, and agnostics. > > > > And yes, I read the whole article. > > > > On Feb 13, 5:55 pm, 1CellOfMany <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Fiddler, > > > > Have you read the complete article? It is very interesting to note > > > > that, while there likely will never be scientific proof of the > > > > existence of God or the truth of the afterlife, etc., > > > > > Kind of makes you go "Hmmmm", eh? > > > > > On Feb 10, 11:40 pm, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > If it takes a new, inclusive, religion to overcome the divisive > > > > > > influence of the old religions, then I am willing to commit to it. > > > > > > I hope you understand how this is completely illogical to hope for. > > > > > The most enlightened beginning for a religion is the example set by > > > > > islam. It began by holding up philosophical thought and scientific > > > > > exploration as a beautiful -and ultimately human- endeavour. Very > > > > > shortly after becoming mainstream, the religious hierarchy couldn't > > > > > stand that people didn't need them and began decreeing that all > > > > > science and philosophy needed to be rooted in god first. You can thank > > > > > al-Ghazali for that. He was one of the most intelligent and > > > > > enlightened of them to begin with but soon decomposed(not a misuse of > > > > > word, intentional) into the raging theistic tyrant that he originally > > > > > was against. This resulted in Baghdads degeneration into the slums > > > > > that it has remained for so very long. Religion rots human minds, > > > > > human creativity, and humanity. > > > > > The quest for spirituality or meaning need not end in religion. I wish > > > > > I could describe the taste of physics, somewhat like mental chocolate > > > > > topping on ambrosia. The sound of a successful chemical chain is like > > > > > a lyre, playing for titans before the rise of gods. Calculus could > > > > > humble the greatest painting ever devised in sheer beauty. Too often > > > > > people refuse this awesome, remarkable, spectacular universe in favour > > > > > of ideology that proclaims it to be mundane. Nothing is farther from > > > > > the truth. When christian quote-miners claim that Einstein, Newton, > > > > > Jefferson, and Sagan were all god lovers, they have mistaken the awe > > > > > inspiring grandeur of reality for a sad little diminishing concept > > > > > like a god. > > > > > > To address the title: Religion was invented when some apes wept after > > > > > recognising the majesty of what they had the capability to achieve and > > > > > learn, and sheep-like apes wept because they could not achieve or > > > > > learn it. The sheep-apes needed to find a way to feel important. Alas, > > > > > there were far more sheep than apes. > > > > > > On Feb 10, 8:17 pm, 1CellOfMany <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Mostly I was replying to the line "I'm not looking for religion, but > > > > > > radical, practical changes in > > > > > > society, the way we live and could live" from the OP. Perhaps you > > > > > > know better than I, Fiddler, but form the article and from other > > > > > > sources I have gotten the impression that religion has had a > > > > > > powerful > > > > > > roll in shaping society (whether or not it influences individual > > > > > > moral > > > > > > choices). I am very much into changing society so that we might be > > > > > > free(er) of the various inequalities and injustices which you so > > > > > > often > > > > > > and so eloquently describe. > > > > > > While the Baha'i Faith does not answer all objections that people > > > > > > have > > > > > > to religion, it does, at least, name speaking ill of others > > > > > > ("backbiting") the greatest sin of all, which tends to prevent all > > > > > > of > > > > > > the finger pointing and such that helps make other religions so > > > > > > intolerable to most people. (I know, this is another shameless plug > > > > > > for my "beliefs"...) <( :-}= > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 10:16 pm, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I think that all people have equal value in terms of their > > > > > > > > intrinsic > > > > > > > > worth, which also implies that all should have the same rights > > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > the law and in society. > > > > > > > > This is impossible in societies that allow religion to determine > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > some people have more worth than others. The abrahamic cults all > > > > > > > depend on being the "right" path. When some people are going to be > > > > > > > "saved" and some are following sharia, they must -of necessity- > > > > > > > tell > > > > > > > others that they aren't as "saved" or that they aren't following > > > > > > > sharia correctly. When homosexuals have the same rights as > > > > > > > christians > > > > > > > and muslims or atheists can legally hold office in every American > > > > > > > state, I'll be impressed and perhaps view these divisive and > > > > > > > exclusive > > > > > > > little clubs in a slightly better light. > > > > > > > > > One of the goals of an improved society should be to provide > > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > and stimulus for each individual to develop his or her > > > > > > > > capacities, and > > > > > > > > to find a way to use those capacities to earn a living. I do > > > > > > > > not see > > > > > > > > how this could be done without some sort of educational system > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > teaches people how to develop character, resolve conflict, and > > > > > > > > collaborate, along with arts, sciences, literature, history, > > > > > > > > crafts, > > > > > > > > and so on. > > > > > > > > Unfortunately, most societies are under the burden of supporting > > > > > > > bronze and iron age superstitions that determine science to be > > > > > > > evil, > > > > > > > conflict to be necessary, history to be personal only, crafts to > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > be legitimate when in support of theology, and character to be > > > > > > > something that must be subverted to some fictional construct; all > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > while the act of ignoring knowledge is held up as some sort of > > > > > > > twisted > > > > > > > ideal. > > > > > > > > >(http://fullcirclelearning.org/default.aspx) > > > > > > > > Please note the dearth of religious organisations that support > > > > > > > this. > > > > > > > The Baha'i are present, as nearly always, in support of human > > > > > > > rights > > > > > > > and education. While I'm not a great fan of superstition, or > > > > > > > belief in > > > > > > > the anthropomorphic representation of it, the Baha'i are often > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
