Hey Pat, It's not about extending rights to other species, it's more about realising that an animal should not be considered just a dumb animal, and treated instead like the sentiant speices that they are. It's more about respecting life and trying to cuase as least harm as possible.
Would you for example whip you dog out of temper? There is a Tamil expression that my uncle taught me once, which translates as 'When you are angry, do not take your temper out on the spouse, instead pick up a stick and beat the dog' As if the dog could not feel pain, nor fear, nor learn to distrust the owner that beats its. Over here in the UK (as I'm sure you know) we are quite the nation of pet lovers, we love our dogs more than our cats i thnk, and when you ask a dog person why, they will tell you things like. 'Ohh he is just so happy to see me when I get home', or 'They are more loving than cats' Granted there is possibly much anthromorphising going on in such cases, but I don't doubt that dogs are happy to see their owners come home, nor that that are more loving than cats, do you? So if a dog can feel happiness and sadness, and love and presumably hate, then why would we not want to treat them as if they do have such emotions? On 18 Feb, 13:15, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 18 Feb, 10:41, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Rigs, > > > Yes I mean all of that. As the dominant species on this little planet > > it falls to us to take care of the Earth. > > > A freind of mine said to me a few weeks ago, 'you have strong moral > > prinicples don't you Lee, I never realised you where like that' Now > > after 20 years of knowing me, I would have thought he might have > > gleaned that much of me, ahh but then I am quite the private man. > > > Anyhoo this was in evidance agian just a few days back when my yougest > > son was endulging in a spot of cat botthering, by which I mean he had > > picked up one of the cats and was forcedly strocking her whilst > > pinning her down on the sofa. Her yowls alerted me to her discomfort > > and I had to tell the boy to let the cat go. When the inevitable > > 'back talk' started I explianed that 'the noises the cat was making > > meant that she did not like what you where doing to her', and his > > reply come back a mummbled 'but it's only a cat dad', I had to explian > > that cat or not she is still a living breathing sentiant being and she > > made it clear that she did not like what you where doing to her. I > > think he got the point, I hope he got the point. > > > The point? The point is as I have shown in the greatest evil thread, > > the greatest evil is the denial of choice, is this also valid for the > > other sentiant speices we share this planet with? How can it not be? > > I won't bother saying it again. But, in some ways, I agree with you. > The problem with extending rights to other species is getting the cat > (or any other species) to vote. And do they vote for other cats to > represent them or do they vote for a human proxy? And, if we DON'T > extend to them the vote, then they are 'forced' to accept whatever WE > decide is best for them. And who's to say what THAT is? So, how do > you give them 'choice'? > > > It is also as a direct result of this point that I simply cannot agree > > with the dealth penalty under any circumstances. > > Shame that. As it's imposed on all forms of life. It's the penalty > for reaching the end of your life span. Or...is that a reward? > Perhaps we should call it the Death Reward. Then, it doesn't sound so > bad. You see, it's all in the marketing. ;-) > > > In my youth I used to think mental health less important than > > physical health, now of course I 'know' better. A Physicaly disabled > > human can still live a full an exciting life, yet a human with mental > > health issues can always be that little step away from suicide. > > Or homicide!! Personally, I think the more SANE individual would > choose to kill everyone else, rather than take their own life. > > > Do emotions play a part in good mental health then? Yes of course > > they do, this includes incredibly, hurt feelings. > > Which are incredibly difficult, if not outright impossible to measure > in 'another' irrespective of the species OF the 'other'. > > > So in my real life example above, the hurt felines (pun intended) of > > my poor pussy where indeed uppermost in my mind. > > There are two puns there. The other being your 'poor pussy'. I won't > ask! ;-) > > > > > On 18 Feb, 10:10, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > You mean the animal kingdom that we have systematically slaughtered? > > > Or the human kingdom that plays war and violence on such a regular > > > basis? Or the vegetable kingdom that we have mutated and deprived of > > > healthy soil and water? //I am for the death penalty for serious human > > > crimes based on serious evidence. Prison is turning into a Holiday Inn > > > with three meals a day, fresh laundry, etc. plus it is big business > > > like nursing homes. Why can't prisoners shovel snow and weed gardens > > > chain gang style in striped p.j.'s for the non-criminal citizens > > > instead of enjoying their hiatus? > > > > On Feb 18, 3:19 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > This is a worry Fids. Not only the great apes, but all of the animal > > > > kingdom. Our bio diversity is much needed, until such a time as we > > > > get to grips with genetic manipulation. > > > > > On 18 Feb, 04:25, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > sorry slip, I'm not a theist. I don't give up because a bronze age > > > > > goatherder said so or take some schizophrenics word for complete > > > > > knowledge of "truth." I did hear that a oneness said something or > > > > > other to a guy named firm-palm-touch... of course that particular > > > > > theist won't publish the idea in a peer-reviewed journal... > > > > > > On Feb 17, 7:52 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > It doesn't really matter fidd, we're only heading toward a nuclear > > > > > > holocaust anyway and the threat of such is currently escalating. > > > > > > Haven't you heard? It's already documented in the space-time > > > > > > continuum; we just haven't received the bulletin yet. > > > > > > > On Feb 17, 9:38 pm, fiddler <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Possibly the only true death penalty/unforgivable crime category: > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > poaching of fellow primates and destruction of habitat for our > > > > > > > cousins. How long until we are the only african ape? Too damn > > > > > > > long for > > > > > > > poachers and witch-doctors. > > > > > > > >http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/science/02/17/endangered.species/index.h...- > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
