On Apr 1, 12:17 am, Ash <[email protected]> wrote: > Going further, sometimes I see the social dynamics of meaning as largely > political. In exchange for forgoing creative exploration and learning > one is provided with the group assurances of (and insistence/demands > for) efficacy, authority and power. In the tribal/social scope it looks > something like Marx' class struggle, and that opens up many more > tangents than this... > > It makes sense that the tribal element would naturally seek > cohesiveness, while individual experience and expression undermines the > power this view provides. Every alternative success story is a threat to > it, so the means to enforce is provided in a sense of authenticity. That > is the dividing wedge between those two forces of social and individual, > for me what I consider 'religious' and 'spiritual'. I do not see a > problem with the political, or religious except for the puritan > antagonism that goes on. The politics of religion are anti-competitive, > might establishes right. > > Well I should stop there, I had to erase most of it. Didn't want to > outdo ya Fidds :). > -Ash
I agree for the most part, but I think the "social normal" is less concerned about alternative success stories, but rather alternative failure stories. Individuality represents an unknown and unknowns can carry danger. Since they are unknown, that danger cannot be defended against. So the position is taken where, as a society, we accept the danger we know rather than the danger we don't know. Thus deviations of any kind are treated with a stigma. However, once this stigma is breached and something different is provent to be successful, society is usually quick to embrace it. > > On 3/31/2010 2:28 PM, Drafterman wrote: > > > > > On Mar 18, 11:11 am, "pol.science kid"<[email protected]> wrote: > > >> Greetings.. fellow eyers.. now.. i dont have much to offer rite now.. > >> but only require some help.. haunted by this strange emptiness..and a > >> feeling of void.. without any reason.. it brings me again and again to > >> the initial post i posted at mind's...the pointlessness of > >> everything.. and the absurdity behind every action.. when the view is > >> from a different level..the endless justifications.. a never ending > >> chain..where justification for something is found in something outside > >> the thing...and justification for that outside it.. it never ends... > >> though it is not very articulately put...i hope i make my point > >> clear....it somehow makes one think of suicide... (no i am not > >> contemplating it)..;-) > > > On an emotional level, I can understand how confronting the inherently > > pointless and meaningless nature of existence can be frightening, but > > it boggles my mind on an intellectual level. > > > I will start by providing my short response - though I expect it will > > be less than satisfying: if you desire meaning and purpose, then > > create it yourself. > > > The long response: > > > I provided my short answer first, so I cannot later be accused of > > holding anyone hostage to what may be a lengthy post just to convey > > something that can be summed up in a sentence. So you have my > > sentence. The problem is that such summation does not include its > > foundation and consequently may be of little help. Generally speaking, > > people are adverse to creating meaning. The knowledge that it was > > created will give the impression that it is "false" when "true" > > meaning is desired. So long as the knowledge that it was created is > > there, so is the lingering knowledge that everything is ultimately > > without inherent meaning. This can, however, be overcome through self- > > delusion. Many people have, under various circumstances, convinced > > themselves of an untruth. Patience and simple repetition can do it for > > just about anything, though traumatic experiences can often be a > > catalyst. > > > I do not feel that self-delusion through self-hypnosis is necessary > > because I think the aversion against manufactured meaning is > > irrational. We create meaning all the time. In fact, I think it is our > > propensity toward creating meaning that results in the very anxiety > > toward a meaningless universe in the first place! We are so used to > > things having an assigned value that we forget that those values are, > > infact, assigned rather than inherent. The value of things is taken > > for granted and so we are often left stunned when confronted with the > > idea that something (let alone everything) has no intrinsic value. > > > Take, for example, money. Fiat money, specifically. It has no inherent > > meaning. It does, however, have extrinsic meaning. We assign meaning > > to it. Do you really consider the inherent value of a $5 bill to be > > five times the inherent value of a $1 bill? It's value is that which > > we have assigned to it. Yet the knowledge of this manufactured meaning > > does not give us pause (consider the satirical article here: > >http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-economy-grinds-to-halt-as-nation-...). > > > If you stopped to think about it, I believe you sould see that most > > everything has a value that is assigned by us in a manner that is > > conducive to our desires and needs. So why should our lives, and the > > universe, be any different? Why should the knowledge that the universe > > has no inherent meaning "haunt" you but the knowledge that a dollar > > bill has no inherent meaning not cause you any concern what-so-ever? > > > The second manner in which I feel that this anxiety is irrational is > > the fact that it goes against how we commonly treat the value of > > things. In this example, we will use precious metals and gems. Why is > > a diamond considered worth more than quartz? In this case, value is > > assigned by rarity. (Perhaps a diamond is a bad example since their > > "rarity" is controlled, at least in part, by diamond companies, but > > the point stands). The more rare something is, the higher value it is > > assigned. From our perspective, there is nothing more unique - and > > hence rarer - than our own lives. We get one life. A finite duration > > and a finite space we have to perceive our existence. Some people > > react with fear at this knowledge respond by referencing (and > > committing) suicide. I find this to be absurd. The knowledge that I > > have this single life drives me to make the most out of it. I treat my > > life as though it were a video game and my mother has told me I have > > to get off once I lose this man. In such a situation I try and prolong > > it in as much as I can! But what is the point of maximuming the > > quantity of one's life if one does not also maximize its quality? > > > Now, I don't expect my long answer to be much more help. Emotional > > responses are rarely assuaged by rational considerations. At least not > > at first. Simply consider that your life is whatever you want to make > > of it. Even those that believe some higher entity, force, or presence > > has done the work of assigning meaning to their lives end up defining, > > for themselves, their purpose (whether they realize/acknowledge it or > > not).- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
