Heh, I understood because it has been a common complaint held on me however due to my masochistic approach to thinking I've found that I can understand anyone and anything, it just takes time. I commonly reread a single sentence dozens of times, or a paragraph and so things move much slower, actually a single word can capture my attention long enough to extrapolate fields of inquiry I've never heard of. The words we use are imperfect expressions of a sea of information within us, some believe the words are real, I no longer differentiate personally so there is less of a direct attachment, their only purpose is for understanding or transmitting thoughts (imperfectly). Not to present a divisive remark, I understand and agree in either case depending on the situation- it drove me nuts in middle school when a friend kept insisting that invisible meant invincible and vice versa, he had them confused and would not listen to reason even though I separated the components of the words. Later he reversed and insisted he had it right the whole time.. I was livid, but dropped it for more interesting things. Not similar just a funny story. *chuckles

"Ash, I agree with your idea, it begins with a spark in us, and moves out to our family, community, society, world..." The beauty of belief is that it doesn't have to be conscious, and to the degree these things can be used to manipulate us we can use them to shine beacons of hope through the din if only we indeed believed. I've noticed there are some people with great gravity and find them interesting, too bad I'm such a misanthrope (really just a trust issue) or I'd go out to meet some! :)

On 2/4/2011 11:34 AM, Molly wrote:
I rarely understand Gabby's comments and this thread is not
exception.  Ash, I agree with your idea, it begins with a spark in us,
and moves out to our family, community, society, world...

On Feb 3, 11:47 pm, Ash<[email protected]>  wrote:
I congratulate your dedication Molly, after reading a few pages of the
Universal Declaration of Human Rights I got too caught up in pedantic
philosophical matters to finish some time ago!

    "Everyone has the right freely to participate in the cultural life of
the community, to enjoy the arts and to share in scientific advancement
and its benefits."

To me this indicates the thinking, or at least the thinking they want us
thinking of the thoughts of the governing boards at UN. ;-)  What type
of people do we want society to produce? What type of society do we want
people composing? Obviously a more united population who can interact
and cooperate is more productive in terms of creative and intelligent
output, building things, or just doing work. The arts seem good but it
is a hard one, mainly that creative works shouldn't be stifled as
parody, criticism, passion, mind benders, comedy, drama etc exercise the
mind and make it robust and diverse in judging the social/political
environments. It seems that to 'share in scientific advancement' means
the process of gaining and collaborating scientific knowledge because
'benefits' would be the products- in that case we want educated and
intelligent populations in order to drive society toward greater
achievements. This makes sense to me and I agree with the unstated ends
it implies. I saved the 'freely' for last, at first it sounds like 'free
of coercion into or disenfranchisement' but it further implies (to me)
the responsibility of society to promote these capacities in their
constituents.

On freedom, emancipation, liberation I think we should consider what
things promote or hinder the healthy mind+body+spirit. Ask many older
people and they will tell you if you have health you've got it all, so
lets take a clue that physical health frees the mind from physical
torment that is a type of freedom or greater mobility. If the mind isn't
stuck or tormented but creatively inspired and charged with knowledge
that is a type of liberation. If we have something to ignite our
spirits, a primal impetus, great hope/work or 'vision' the spirit can be
emancipated. Okay, enough from me I'll just say: A unifying vision for
any human is seeing this paragraph in action. Or one could argue we
haven't had enough horrors to demand it of ourselves (or have we?)...

On 2/2/2011 6:43 AM, Molly wrote:







The United Nations has a declaration of human rights that states in
the preamble:  "This Universal Declaration Of Human Rights as a common
standard of achievement for all peoples and all nations, to the end
that every individual and every organ of society, keeping this
Declaration constantly in mind, shall strive by teaching and education
to promote respect for these rights and freedoms and by progressive
measures, national and international, to secure their universal and
effective recognition and observance, both among the peoples of Member
States themselves and among the peoples of territories under their
jurisdiction."
It has 30 sections, and the 27th states:  "Everyone has the right
freely to participate in the cultural life of the community, to enjoy
the arts and to share in scientific advancement and its benefits."
This got me thinking about what it means to participate in life.
Certainly, it means different things in different spots around the
globe.  And, I can appreciate the United Nations boldly stating the
ideal for humankind that includes freedom and choice.  But I wonder
what it really means to participate in life, especially since in my
current life stages, I have given up the ideas of goals and long term
plans and surrendered, for the most part, to the calling of the
moment.
I say this with the understanding that what calls me in the moment is
a direct result of my life's work, my faith and my internal
environment (thoughts, feelings, relationships, attitudes.)  This is
to say that we never come completely fresh to each moment, we come as
we are.  Yet, it seems to me, how we present ourselves to each moment
allows possibility for change, growth, freedom, love...
What do YOU think?

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