Chuck, what you are now saying about soldiers and leaders and nukes I agree with entirely; however, I don’t differentiate that much between ‘sides’ when it comes to willingness to radiate humanity. This is born out at least by history.
On Apr 15, 5:15 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > "...What else would you call an uptake in the level of > understaning of sciences in a given sociaty if not intelegence? " - > Lee > > Collection of analogical data? :) > > On Apr 15, 4:16 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hey Chuck, > > > Yes our technology has made a great differance to the human animal. > > It is now far easier for our kids to remotley bully each other, or for > > house parties to become massivly gate crashed. Two examples of > > technolgy makeing things worse perhaps? As I say eb and flow, good > > things and bad, let us look at the whole. > > > Again you seem to be speaking with authority about the past. 1000 > > years ago is long time ago, how do you know these things? > > > Heh that is a mouth full and I see much truth in it. Yes of coure our > > opinions on what is forward progress are bound to differ and I bet if > > we were to ask our dearest Gabs, and our Ornary OM they too would > > produce differant yard sticks. > > > Hah hah yes indeed all topics are broad, I can think of not one that > > is simple. However does this mean we cannot have meaningfull discourse > > on any subject? Nope I disagree, if only that after almost a week you > > and I have gotten to know each other a little. I find that very > > meaningfull indeed. What is a human without human interaction? > > > Yes I mean some of that, but also it is possible to realise that such > > feelings serve a low porpouse and erradicate them from your life. > > > I can't agree that the erradication of such feelings somehow changes > > what it is to be human. > > > I am human, if I state that I am now-a-days rarely angry and never > > jelous, am I now to be defined as being diferant from human? > > > Yes I can see some forward movement on world widfe ethics, but I also > > see much evidance of backwards movment on personal morality, so agian > > eb and flow and taking the whole into acount. > > > Heh so you have asserted without knowing then? > > > No I don't belive that American gun onwers are all frighted rabbits, > > only that this is the typical argument that I hear from the majority > > of them. After all if you can't take a persons words as being true > > then I think we are doomed. > > > Guns are fun, and yes I have fired them many times. Revolvers, .22's, > > SLR's, semi automatic hand guns. They sure are fun, but you know I > > still can't help thinking that the only desgin use for a hand gun is > > to shoot people. So not at all like basket ball IMO. > > > I'll takle single indivduals in sociaty and what the PM has just said > > together as they are linked. > > > The uppermost thought in Mr Camerons mind is I belive the up and > > coming local elections come May 5th and the referendum on AV at the > > same day. Our PM is despertly trying to curry favour with the > > electorate, and so this talk about cutting down immergration I am > > alsmost ashamed to say mirrors the mood of the majority of the > > people. Nope not for economic reasons has he now trotted this line > > out. Single indviduals are angry, angry that the Poles take all the > > jobs, angry at the banks, angry at the goverment, angry at the world > > wide global crisis, just plain angry(I of course can only really speak > > about my own sociaty on this). Anger is not condusive to social > > cohesivness is it? > > > On the surface it may seem that technology is not the same as > > increased intelegence, but surely they are linked? Your avarage > > school leaver now understands more about physics then they did say 60 > > years ago. What else would you call an uptake in the level of > > understaning of sciences in a given sociaty if not intelegence? > > > On Apr 14, 6:04 pm, Chuck Bowling <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Apr 14, 2011 at 6:05 AM, [email protected] < > > > > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hey Chuck, > > > > > I think we can probaly say that better just means better in many > > > > aspects, so yes it may mean more socialy aware, and yes it may also > > > > mean envirmentlay aware and the rest of your list here. > > > > > My point is more holistic, taking the whole. Are we more socialy > > > > aware than say 100 years ago? Well perhaps, but maybe not, we'll have > > > > to look long and hard at our histories to answer that. > > > > Actually, I think technology and cultural influences have mediated human > > > behavior quite a bit. > > > > For instance, a remote village in the UK a thousand years ago might have > > > welcomed a Muslim with open arms. However, if that Muslim chose to cut the > > > village elders throat because he was an infidel then the village would > > > probably think twice about welcoming Muslims in the future. > > > > Today due to our technology and our interactions with other cultures we > > > know > > > that not all Muslims are fanatics. > > > > > However this may be a step forwards but in other areas have we taken > > > > steps backward? Taking the whole into account I can see little > > > > evidance of forward movement. The human animal is more or less the > > > > same as > > > > we have always been. > > > > Here, the subject of human morality and social behavior is so amorphous > > > that > > > there is no way to point to any specific facet and say "there is an > > > example > > > of forward progress". Is it forward progress for Italians or Turks or > > > Europeans or forward progress for the entire human race? If so, who is it > > > that defines and measures forward progress? Is my idea of forward progress > > > and yours the same? > > > > My point is that the topic is too broad to make any meaningful discourse > > > on. > > > > > I disagree. It is perfectly capable of humans to let go of both anger > > > > and jelousy. > > > > By 'letting go' I assume that you mean acquiring anger and/or jealousy > > > over > > > a certain situation and using self-control to let go. > > > > I didn't say anything about letting go in that context. What I was > > > referring > > > to was the hardwired emotions that we all have. Without anger, jealousy, > > > love, hate, empathy, we lose a significant portion of what defines us as > > > human. > > > > To quote: > > > > >> As long as we are human I think we will > > > >> suffer anger and jealousy. It's how we deal > > > >> with it as individuals and as a society that > > > >> determine the measure of growth. > > > > The thing about 1000 years ago and rape is you just don't know if that > > > > > is true, or if you do I would love to see any source material that has > > > > brought you to this conclusion. > > > > The issue isn't rape but the ethical framework that dictates behavior. > > > While > > > each culture has it's own framework in general ethics have matured over > > > the > > > centuries and that maturation has been reflected in the laws that govern. > > > > Typically most cultures are and historically, have been male dominated. > > > This > > > has led to a bias in the way individuals are treated. That dichotomy has > > > at > > > times required a higher standard of proof from the victim than from the > > > perpetrator. > > > > I really don't want to do the research to support my assertions but I'm > > > sure > > > it shouldn't be too hard to find specific examples if you're that driven. > > > > Perhaps I spoke disingenuisly if so forgive me. I have had many a > > > > > debate with our American brethren on gun ownership, and what I get > > > > most is protection from those who may brake into your house, mug you, > > > > attempt to take your loved ones, etc.. If it looks like fear, and > > > > smells like fear and sounds like fear, there is a very good chance > > > > that is it fear. > > > > Heh. Do you really believe that all American gun owners are frightened > > > rabbits hiding away in their homes just waiting for the bogey man to burst > > > through the front door? > > > > Guns have multiple uses as I assumed was clear in my post. One most > > > definitely is protection. There is a real possibility that someone could > > > break through the front door but it's not something that consumes every > > > thought for every moment of the day. > > > > As to hunting as you alude to here, rifles my good man or shot guns > > > > > for that, so you would agree that there is no need to own a hand gun > > > > or an automatic weapon? > > > > Have you ever fired a hand gun or automatic weapon? > > > > Many people have hand guns and automatic weapons for the same reason that > > > people own basketballs. Just as there is no good reason to fire at a > > > target > > > or a beer can, there is no good reason to shoot a basketball at a hoop - > > > and > > > yet we do. > > > > > Not more intelegent but more socialy intergrated? Nope I think that > > > > perhaps the opposite is true. > > > > This link is a thesis on the intelligence of prehistoric man: > > > >http://www.custance.org/old/earlyman/3ch1.html > > > > If you read it you'll see that our intelligence over the centuries hasn't > > > changed significantly. > > > > As to social integration. I am not referring to tolerance of other > > > cultures. > > > I am referring to the organization and function of individuals within a > > > single society. > > > > Look at world wide politics at this moment in time. France have just > > > > > made laws banning Muslim woman dressing in any kind of face covering. > > > > Social intergration? Today our Prime Minister was on the TV telling > > > > how he is planning on cutting down imergration into the UK from > > > > 100,000s to 10,000's. Social intergration? Nope it seems to me that > > > > we are entering into an age of misrust of those not of our own culture > > > > or heritage. > > > > I don't know anything about french law concerning dress but if the PM is > > > cutting down on immigration I'd guess that there are other motivations > > > besides cultural mistrust. Economic considerations probably being primary. > > > > > On the other hand, gene therapies, real movment in nuculare fusion via > > > > laser or plasma, stem cell tecnolgy, phones that > > ... > > read more »
