Yes- it is belief but also education/indoctrination, isn't it? Beliefs may be precious or blind. How we change the beliefs of others= history! I do try to understand differences most of the time...Vive la difference!
On May 10, 4:30 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: > Heh as you say Rigsy, this is merely my belife. We know that when it > comes to things like God, Ghosts or whatever it is all down to > belife. This is merely my way of explaining to my own satifaction the > differant between the physical world and the world of spirit. > > On May 10, 4:04 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > So activity can be scanned but does that really make it "matter"? I > > came across this today: "Today, for instance, we talk of 'matter.' We > > describe its physical properties. We conduct laboratory experiments to > > demonstrate some of its aspects. But the word 'matter' remains a dry, > > inhuman, and purely intellectual concept, without any psychic > > significance for us. How different was the former image of matter- the > > Great Mother- that could encompass and express the profound emotional > > meaning of Mother Earth. In the same way, what was the spirit is now > > identified with intellect and thus ceases to be the Father of All. It > > has degenerated to the limited ego-thoughts of man; the immense > > emotional energy expressed in the image of 'our Father' vanishes into > > the sand of an intellectual desert." Carl G. Jung- "Man and his > > Symbols" Of course, I thought of you immediately! :-) > > > On May 9, 9:37 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > All of which though still take place in the brain. > > > > On May 9, 1:57 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I would put it in the spirit but respect your opinion(s). Brain scans > > > > capture images, so they would be material, I guess, but the consious > > > > and unconscious seem immaterial until they are translated into a > > > > visible form- from the written or spoken word to action of some sort. > > > > How do you account for dreams? For thoughts that pop up from "nowhere" > > > > and have no relation to reality? For the imagination? Modern man is > > > > self-conscious about his thinking believing himself a rational > > > > creature more than an animal- but is this entirely true? Or hubris? > > > > > On May 9, 6:02 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Rigsy I would put thoguht in the matter cateogory. > > > > > > On May 7, 5:47 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > So is thought spirit or matter? > > > > > > > I may not understand spirit in the same way as you, lee. I am trying > > > > > > to think of spirit/matter in degrees somewhat like the degrees of > > > > > > shading between black and white- nine values to human perception. > > > > > > > Yet humans have given God, ghosts, angels, demons material forms so > > > > > > I > > > > > > wonder if it is believed humans cannot conceive spirit independent > > > > > > of > > > > > > form. > > > > > > > On May 5, 9:14 am, "[email protected]" > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > > > > > > Spirit is all that exists that is not matter. Think God, think > > > > > > > ghosts, angels or demons, if you belive in such. If you do not > > > > > > > then > > > > > > > at least I hope that is a little clearer. > > > > > > > > On May 5, 2:48 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Please define what you mean by "spirit". Thank you. > > > > > > > > > Isn't the material world in a constant state of recycling? > > > > > > > > > How do you account for memory- the impact of the dead upon the > > > > > > > > living? > > > > > > > > I have a crush on Marvell and Donne, btw! :-) > > > > > > > > > Are some happier in their inner world or their outer world? Why? > > > > > > > > > On May 5, 4:31 am, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hey Om, > > > > > > > > > > See my reply to RP, for a fuller explaintion of my belifes. > > > > > > > > > Yes > > > > > > > > > eternity exists, but for us creatures of matter it does not. > > > > > > > > > Eternity > > > > > > > > > is the realm of the spirit. > > > > > > > > > > Yes indeed we are back to labels, that which we label > > > > > > > > > gravity, we do > > > > > > > > > so in order to attempt an understanding. We are not able to > > > > > > > > > communicate our thought to each other telephicly, we must use > > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > > labels, I'm sure that you'll agree this methoed is fraught > > > > > > > > > with all > > > > > > > > > sorts of obsticles, but it is the one we have and so we must > > > > > > > > > use it. > > > > > > > > > > Exists is another such label, and my thanks to you for > > > > > > > > > defineing it. I > > > > > > > > > would further define it as that which is. So all creatures of > > > > > > > > > spirit > > > > > > > > > included. That though is of course a belife of mine, and so > > > > > > > > > you can > > > > > > > > > agree or disagree at your whim. > > > > > > > > > > On May 4, 5:26 pm, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > “…We still don't know how gravity works, but we > > > > > > > > > > are sure that such a thing exists, we see it's effects all > > > > > > > > > > around us > > > > > > > > > > and can apply sciences to measure it. Like time we can see > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > effects of it. Now I'll not discount the idea that the > > > > > > > > > > effects of > > > > > > > > > > time may be down to something else entirly…” – Lee > > > > > > > > > > > True that we don’t know how gravity works. I’ll add that we > > > > > > > > > > don’t know > > > > > > > > > > what it is either…even though there is a predictable > > > > > > > > > > ‘effect’. So, not > > > > > > > > > > knowing what a thing is nor how it works how do we know > > > > > > > > > > that it > > > > > > > > > > exists? Here I’ll use the understanding of the term > > > > > > > > > > ‘exists’ as being > > > > > > > > > > something that the physical senses see/feel/hear etc. We > > > > > > > > > > don’t see > > > > > > > > > > ‘it’ (gravity). We only see some predictable movement and > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > movement applies to about everything so in this sense it is > > > > > > > > > > not unique… > > > > > > > > > > let alone a unique ‘thing’. Now, one need not agree with > > > > > > > > > > this of > > > > > > > > > > course; however, if not, it would appear congruent to me > > > > > > > > > > that one > > > > > > > > > > could say that god ‘exists’ in the same way. . . something > > > > > > > > > > that I > > > > > > > > > > suggest (in most cases) is but a belief…not any objective > > > > > > > > > > ‘existence’. > > > > > > > > > > > “…The thing with imagining enternity or existing within it, > > > > > > > > > > is that > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > is just imaginagtion isn't it…” - Lee > > > > > > > > > > > Yes Lee, if one merely imagines it…it is. However, are you > > > > > > > > > > suggesting > > > > > > > > > > that we do not live in eternity? That eternity doesn’t > > > > > > > > > > ‘exist’? These > > > > > > > > > > are all parts of the examination I suggest. > > > > > > > > > > > On May 4, 5:02 am, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey OM. > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess what we are talking about are forces. I see that > > > > > > > > > > > perhaps you > > > > > > > > > > > do not count time a s force, or that perhaps our > > > > > > > > > > > understanding of what > > > > > > > > > > > time is must be constrained by the type of being we are. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes I agree that the reality maynot be wholey how we > > > > > > > > > > > percive it to be, > > > > > > > > > > > as you know this has been my stance for a long while now. > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to forces though. We still don't know how gravity > > > > > > > > > > > works, but we > > > > > > > > > > > are sure that such a thing exists, we see it's effects > > > > > > > > > > > all around us > > > > > > > > > > > and can apply sciences to measure it. Like time we can > > > > > > > > > > > see the > > > > > > > > > > > effects of it. Now I'll not discount the idea that the > > > > > > > > > > > effects of > > > > > > > > > > > time may be down to something else entirly. > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing with imagining enternity or existing within it, > > > > > > > > > > > is that it > > > > > > > > > > > is just imaginagtion isn't it. I can also imagine that > > > > > > > > > > > I'll a tall > > > > > > > > > > > man with broad shoulders, but the reality of the > > > > > > > > > > > situation is I am > > > > > > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 4, 10:34 am, ornamentalmind > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lee, I sense that what we perceive as being 'external' > > > > > > > > > > > > - energy and > > > > > > > > > > > > movement - is that. However, beyond this, our notions > > > > > > > > > > > > of what things > > > > > > > > > > > > are...even the letters and associated words for SETI... > > > > > > > > > > > > only exist in > > > > > > > > > > > > thought...no where else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > As an aside, for those who may have missed it, SETI has > > > > > > > > > > > > been defunded. > > > > > > > > > > > > > And, no, I didn't miss your caveat. I just disagree and > > > > > > > > > > > > suspect that > > > > > > > > > > > > having thought about what one thinks is real, which > > > > > > > > > > > > does include the > > > > > > > > > > > > concept of time, all one's lifetime...the notion of > > > > > > > > > > > > time becomes so > > > > > > > > > > > > ingrained in one's world view that it is assumed to be > > > > > > > > > > > > an actual thing > > > > > > > > > > > > rather than merely a thought. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, when one *thinks* about such things, they appear > > > > > > > > > > > > to be real. The > > > > > > > > > > > > operative words here are "appears to be". As a mental > > > > > > > > > > > > exercise Lee, > > > > > > > > > > > > I'll ask you to do your very best to imagine existing in > > > > > > > > > > > > eternity...that which has no beginning and no end. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Got the vision?.....from this perspective (the actual > > > > > > > > > > > > 'reality'), time > > > > > > > > > > > > just is meaningless... especially if one also imagines > > > > > > > > > > > > no perceiver(s) > > > > > > > > > > > > involved anywhere at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, I do know that there is life and > > > > > > > > > > > > that we, as human > > > > > > > > > > > > beings do think and project our understandings upon the > > > > > > > > > > > > fabric of what > > > > > > > > > > > > we project as being 'external' to ourselves. I don't > > > > > > > > > > > > deny this...it is > > > > > > > > > > > > obvious that we do. It's just that what we project > > > > > > > > > > > > comes from mind and > > > > > > > > > > > > not from whatever is actually there. What is actually > > > > > > > > > > > > there is not > > > > > > > > > > > > what we perceives as time...it isn't color (except > > > > > > > > > > > > clear light as TTS > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
