All of which though still take place in the brain.
On May 9, 1:57 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > I would put it in the spirit but respect your opinion(s). Brain scans > capture images, so they would be material, I guess, but the consious > and unconscious seem immaterial until they are translated into a > visible form- from the written or spoken word to action of some sort. > How do you account for dreams? For thoughts that pop up from "nowhere" > and have no relation to reality? For the imagination? Modern man is > self-conscious about his thinking believing himself a rational > creature more than an animal- but is this entirely true? Or hubris? > > On May 9, 6:02 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > Rigsy I would put thoguht in the matter cateogory. > > > On May 7, 5:47 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > So is thought spirit or matter? > > > > I may not understand spirit in the same way as you, lee. I am trying > > > to think of spirit/matter in degrees somewhat like the degrees of > > > shading between black and white- nine values to human perception. > > > > Yet humans have given God, ghosts, angels, demons material forms so I > > > wonder if it is believed humans cannot conceive spirit independent of > > > form. > > > > On May 5, 9:14 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > Hey Rigsy, > > > > > Spirit is all that exists that is not matter. Think God, think > > > > ghosts, angels or demons, if you belive in such. If you do not then > > > > at least I hope that is a little clearer. > > > > > On May 5, 2:48 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Please define what you mean by "spirit". Thank you. > > > > > > Isn't the material world in a constant state of recycling? > > > > > > How do you account for memory- the impact of the dead upon the living? > > > > > I have a crush on Marvell and Donne, btw! :-) > > > > > > Are some happier in their inner world or their outer world? Why? > > > > > > On May 5, 4:31 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hey Om, > > > > > > > See my reply to RP, for a fuller explaintion of my belifes. Yes > > > > > > eternity exists, but for us creatures of matter it does not. > > > > > > Eternity > > > > > > is the realm of the spirit. > > > > > > > Yes indeed we are back to labels, that which we label gravity, we do > > > > > > so in order to attempt an understanding. We are not able to > > > > > > communicate our thought to each other telephicly, we must use our > > > > > > labels, I'm sure that you'll agree this methoed is fraught with all > > > > > > sorts of obsticles, but it is the one we have and so we must use it. > > > > > > > Exists is another such label, and my thanks to you for defineing > > > > > > it. I > > > > > > would further define it as that which is. So all creatures of spirit > > > > > > included. That though is of course a belife of mine, and so you can > > > > > > agree or disagree at your whim. > > > > > > > On May 4, 5:26 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > “…We still don't know how gravity works, but we > > > > > > > are sure that such a thing exists, we see it's effects all around > > > > > > > us > > > > > > > and can apply sciences to measure it. Like time we can see the > > > > > > > effects of it. Now I'll not discount the idea that the effects of > > > > > > > time may be down to something else entirly…” – Lee > > > > > > > > True that we don’t know how gravity works. I’ll add that we don’t > > > > > > > know > > > > > > > what it is either…even though there is a predictable ‘effect’. > > > > > > > So, not > > > > > > > knowing what a thing is nor how it works how do we know that it > > > > > > > exists? Here I’ll use the understanding of the term ‘exists’ as > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > something that the physical senses see/feel/hear etc. We don’t see > > > > > > > ‘it’ (gravity). We only see some predictable movement and that > > > > > > > movement applies to about everything so in this sense it is not > > > > > > > unique… > > > > > > > let alone a unique ‘thing’. Now, one need not agree with this of > > > > > > > course; however, if not, it would appear congruent to me that one > > > > > > > could say that god ‘exists’ in the same way. . . something that I > > > > > > > suggest (in most cases) is but a belief…not any objective > > > > > > > ‘existence’. > > > > > > > > “…The thing with imagining enternity or existing within it, is > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > is just imaginagtion isn't it…” - Lee > > > > > > > > Yes Lee, if one merely imagines it…it is. However, are you > > > > > > > suggesting > > > > > > > that we do not live in eternity? That eternity doesn’t ‘exist’? > > > > > > > These > > > > > > > are all parts of the examination I suggest. > > > > > > > > On May 4, 5:02 am, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hey OM. > > > > > > > > > I guess what we are talking about are forces. I see that > > > > > > > > perhaps you > > > > > > > > do not count time a s force, or that perhaps our understanding > > > > > > > > of what > > > > > > > > time is must be constrained by the type of being we are. > > > > > > > > > Yes I agree that the reality maynot be wholey how we percive it > > > > > > > > to be, > > > > > > > > as you know this has been my stance for a long while now. > > > > > > > > > Back to forces though. We still don't know how gravity works, > > > > > > > > but we > > > > > > > > are sure that such a thing exists, we see it's effects all > > > > > > > > around us > > > > > > > > and can apply sciences to measure it. Like time we can see the > > > > > > > > effects of it. Now I'll not discount the idea that the effects > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > time may be down to something else entirly. > > > > > > > > > The thing with imagining enternity or existing within it, is > > > > > > > > that it > > > > > > > > is just imaginagtion isn't it. I can also imagine that I'll a > > > > > > > > tall > > > > > > > > man with broad shoulders, but the reality of the situation is I > > > > > > > > am > > > > > > > > not. > > > > > > > > > On May 4, 10:34 am, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Lee, I sense that what we perceive as being 'external' - > > > > > > > > > energy and > > > > > > > > > movement - is that. However, beyond this, our notions of what > > > > > > > > > things > > > > > > > > > are...even the letters and associated words for SETI... only > > > > > > > > > exist in > > > > > > > > > thought...no where else. > > > > > > > > > > As an aside, for those who may have missed it, SETI has been > > > > > > > > > defunded. > > > > > > > > > > And, no, I didn't miss your caveat. I just disagree and > > > > > > > > > suspect that > > > > > > > > > having thought about what one thinks is real, which does > > > > > > > > > include the > > > > > > > > > concept of time, all one's lifetime...the notion of time > > > > > > > > > becomes so > > > > > > > > > ingrained in one's world view that it is assumed to be an > > > > > > > > > actual thing > > > > > > > > > rather than merely a thought. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, when one *thinks* about such things, they appear to be > > > > > > > > > real. The > > > > > > > > > operative words here are "appears to be". As a mental > > > > > > > > > exercise Lee, > > > > > > > > > I'll ask you to do your very best to imagine existing in > > > > > > > > > eternity...that which has no beginning and no end. > > > > > > > > > > Got the vision?.....from this perspective (the actual > > > > > > > > > 'reality'), time > > > > > > > > > just is meaningless... especially if one also imagines no > > > > > > > > > perceiver(s) > > > > > > > > > involved anywhere at all. > > > > > > > > > > On the other hand, I do know that there is life and that we, > > > > > > > > > as human > > > > > > > > > beings do think and project our understandings upon the > > > > > > > > > fabric of what > > > > > > > > > we project as being 'external' to ourselves. I don't deny > > > > > > > > > this...it is > > > > > > > > > obvious that we do. It's just that what we project comes from > > > > > > > > > mind and > > > > > > > > > not from whatever is actually there. What is actually there > > > > > > > > > is not > > > > > > > > > what we perceives as time...it isn't color (except clear > > > > > > > > > light as TTS > > > > > > > > > notes...something I've been contemplating for years > > > > > > > > > now...something > > > > > > > > > that to the rational/thinking mind just can't be > > > > > > > > > grasped)...it isn't > > > > > > > > > SETI...it isn't shape...it isn't anything that human senses > > > > > > > > > perceive > > > > > > > > > and then apply some sort of belief about what is being > > > > > > > > > perceived...based upon previously attached beliefs. We don't > > > > > > > > > in our > > > > > > > > > everyday mode perceive reality as it actually is. We do use > > > > > > > > > conventions mind agrees upon...for practicality's sake...its > > > > > > > > > just that > > > > > > > > > in any ultimate sense, these conventions are nothing more than > > > > > > > > > that...they are not what is actually there. Remove the > > > > > > > > > observer (and > > > > > > > > > associated senses) and what exists? Get it? No thinking...no > > > > > > > > > thoughts...no concepts...no words...no notions of reality.... > > > > > > > > > > No, this isn't the conventional approach to things > > > > > > > > > ontological nor > > > > > > > > > epistemological....yet, the exercise can be of enormous value > > > > > > > > > in my > > > > > > > > > experience. No, I'm not attempting to impose a belief system > > > > > > > > > upon you > > > > > > > > > or anyone else...in fact, it is almost like a diminution of > > > > > > > > > belief if > > > > > > > > > anything at all! > > > > > > > > > > So, yes, how does one think about not thinking!!! > > > > > > > > > > Well...we have gone down this road quite often Lee...and you > > > > > > > > > stop > > > > > > > > > after only a couple of paces which is fine. > > > > > > > > > > For me, I hunger to know beyond my own set of beliefs...which > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > > > almost all things that I've attached to long ago and were > > > > > > > > > formed based > > > > > > > > > upon words...and, not having created those words...there is > > > > > > > > > little > > > > > > > > > that I actually know associated with these terms fed to me by > > > > > > > > > others. > > > > > > > > > > To do this search, deconstruction [of beliefs] seems to be > > > > > > > > > one method. > > > > > > > > > It isn't a road often traveled nor does it seem to be for > > > > > > > > > everyone. So > > > > > > > > > be it! > > > > > > > > > > On May 4, 1:47 am, "[email protected]" > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
