Late 70s to late 80s - Baghdad, Damascus and Beirut were regular stops if reasonably free of bullets. I was about to take a job at the American University in Beirut just as the place trashed. Beirut was beautiful from the mountains to the sea. The point on Germany and Japan is they thrived after worse than bankers can do. Argentina has survived default. A modern revolution from China and through the west would be against banks and 'wealth rents' - and it might happen if we can avoid war.
On Jul 3, 1:59 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > They recovered quickly because they already had been industrial > nations and being bombed to pieces allowed them to construct new > factories.//Am very curious about the time period you are refering to > re "blazing" Baghdad! :-) > > On Jul 1, 4:08 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Germany and Japan 'lost' WW2 and seemed to recover pretty quickly. > > Britain only finished paying off debt to the US a couple of years > > back. France and Britain are the 'normal' colonists in Northern > > Africa, but it's hard to work out quite what colonialism is these > > days. I like the casino idea Rigs - Baghdad was once a place of > > blazing night-life. > > > On Jun 30, 3:01 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > What exactly do the Greeks have? Ruins, olives, feta...Same with > > > Portugal and Spain. And Ireland collapsed. Why are France and Britain > > > fighting Libya and wasting money on yet another war? Now the English > > > are protesting austerity measures and if it gets nasty no one will go > > > to their extravagant Olympics. > > > > I doubt the USA will declare itself bankrupt and welch on its debt > > > plus it's stuck with its military. Maybe we can turn our Baghdad > > > embassy(1 billion and counting) into a casino- import Bunny Clubs and > > > Disney Worlds!!! > > > > On Jun 29, 12:23 pm, allan deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I have been listening to the news.. it is strange.. one of the odd > > > > things > > > > that came up was just dumping the debt.. some one said it would take > > > > then > > > > 15 to 20 years to recover.. that is odd because the way that is > > > > laided > > > > out by the bankers the funny part is you can never recover.. the > > > > bankers > > > > way they can never recover.. interesting... if you do not believe me > > > > when > > > > is the USA 11 trillion dollar debt going to be repaid?? > > > > > that is bad for business if governments repay their debt.. > > > > > the effect of dumping the debt would be felt all over europe.. but I > > > > think > > > > it would really wake up governments to the bankers,, and the world bank > > > > and > > > > it counter part the IMF.. > > > > I do not think the greek people are going away quietly or lay down > > > > quietly.. the legislation passed is against their will.. > > > > Allan > > > > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 5:28 PM, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > You optimist, you :) > > > > > > On Jun 29, 3:19 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I tend to think of human nature portrayed in a triptych- the good, > > > > > > the > > > > > > bad and those in-between. There are hinges. :-) > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 5:34 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you're right; there's no getting away from human > > > > > > > nature; > > > > > > > thats why the idea of communism had such a hard time in practice. > > > > > > > > So, we cant swim against the tide, we cant swim too far out with > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > tide; it's a dilemma alright. > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 3:41 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't think you can factor out greed and competition/lust for > > > > > > > > power > > > > > > > > whether you are talking about conquest or the accumulation of > > > > > > > > wealth. > > > > > > > > History is replete with examples- the challenge to papal wealth > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > control, the aristocracy, colonial rulers, national tyrants > > > > > > > > whose > > > > > > > > replacements sank in the same rut. It is a moral dilemma as far > > > > > > > > as to > > > > > > > > how to stabilize humanity with such various lacks or talents. > > > > > > > > Education and democracy were supposed to balance the odds- > > > > > > > > morals and > > > > > > > > mercy included. How has that worked out? A nation becomes what > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > admires. > > > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2:30 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > But communism (in theory) is about every man contributing to > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > communal pot, to be distributed by dint of a principle of > > > > > > > > > "equity". > > > > > > > > > > Free markets (or Capitalism, or whatever resonates) is about > > > > > > > > > man > > > > > > > > > pursuing his own ends, for which an emergent, enabling > > > > > > > > > by-product > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > the economy (as we know it); of course, great disparities of > > > > > > > > > wealth > > > > > > > > > (and power) are an unavoidable (some might argue desirable) > > > > > feature, > > > > > > > > > as man has an unequal capacity to create value (and we can > > > > > > > > > get into > > > > > > > > > the ethics of the "why's" and the "wherefore's"). > > > > > > > > > (Re)distribution > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > a political initiative to manage these disparities through > > > > > taxation. > > > > > > > > > And yes, you're right, wealth will perpetuate "at the top", > > > > > > > > > but > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > as a consequence of an enhanced capacity to create even > > > > > > > > > greater > > > > > value; > > > > > > > > > i think that this is what tends to appear as the great > > > > > > > > > "visible > > > > > hand". > > > > > > > > > > Thing about "growth", rigsy / contemplative, is it's one of > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > few mega non-zero sums around; thats what makes it so > > > > > > > > > beguiling and > > > > > > > > > difficult to manage; so we swing from boom to bust to boom > > > > > > > > > to...:) > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2:49 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I don't agree- unless you are talking about Communism- which > > > > > flopped. > > > > > > > > > > Man serves the economy and whichever power happens to be in > > > > > charge who > > > > > > > > > > may then decide to redistribute wealth/products but this is > > > > > > > > > > not a > > > > > > > > > > voluntary agreement. But generally, wealth remains at the > > > > > > > > > > top for > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > prime reason of maintaining power. > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 3:26 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm...fine points all! > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets not forget though, that the economy serves man, not > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > other way > > > > > > > > > > > round? Just an observation regarding your suspicion of the > > > > > "growth" > > > > > > > > > > > imperative in contemporary economics. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 9:54 pm, Contemplative <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > The key phrase for me is "relative homeostasis". I > > > > > > > > > > > > agree > > > > > that the > > > > > > > > > > > > encouragement you refer to > > > > > > > > > > > > is desirable. I am unsure of it's possibility. Our > > > > > > > > > > > > belief > > > > > that growth is > > > > > > > > > > > > mandatory for our economy > > > > > > > > > > > > encourages activities and behaviors that, I think, > > > > > > > > > > > > out-pace > > > > > the ability of > > > > > > > > > > > > the natural system to > > > > > > > > > > > > balance itself at its natural rate. I am not convinced > > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > we have a solid > > > > > > > > > > > > enough understanding > > > > > > > > > > > > of our own system to allow us to recognize true key > > > > > indicators of systemic > > > > > > > > > > > > health, rationally process > > > > > > > > > > > > that input, and subsequently make good decisions about > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > which conditions > > > > > > > > > > > > we should encourage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > To state it bluntly, I think our desire for growth is > > > > > malignant... > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean to be doom and gloom about this, and > > > > > > > > > > > > actually I > > > > > think there is > > > > > > > > > > > > reason to be optimistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > But economics seems to me to have that stereotypical > > > > > characteristic of > > > > > > > > > > > > having 20/20 vision through > > > > > > > > > > > > the rear view mirror. Economic policy decisions that > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > both long term and > > > > > > > > > > > > aggressive(such as increased > > > > > > > > > > > > home ownership) which use 'tweaks' to the system to > > > > > > > > > > > > achieve > > > > > the aims are > > > > > > > > > > > > likely destructive and very > > > > > > > > > > > > unpredictable. In a relatively isolated or buffered > > > > > > > > > > > > system, > > > > > they may be > > > > > > > > > > > > more predictable, but we are not > > > > > > > > > > > > in an economy which is either buffered or isolated. We > > > > > > > > > > > > are > > > > > comparatively > > > > > > > > > > > > wide open(global), and playing > > > > > > > > > > > > in a much bigger sandbox than we have been, say 25 > > > > > > > > > > > > years ago. > > > > > ...and from > > > > > > > > > > > > my perspective, we don't > > > > > > > > > > > > know the playing field well enough to be aggressive, > > > > > > > > > > > > though > > > > > we should be > > > > > > > > > > > > looking long term. ...and by > > > > > > > > > > > > long term, I mean more than two quarters out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to think this through a > > > > > > > > > > > > bit...! > > > > > :-)- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > -- > > > > ( > > > > ) > > > > I_D Allan > > > > > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > > > > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -
