Until to yesterday I had forgotten about Argentina... strangely it may actually be the most realistic solution Allan
On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 12:16 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Late 70s to late 80s - Baghdad, Damascus and Beirut were regular stops > if reasonably free of bullets. I was about to take a job at the > American University in Beirut just as the place trashed. Beirut was > beautiful from the mountains to the sea. > The point on Germany and Japan is they thrived after worse than > bankers can do. Argentina has survived default. A modern revolution > from China and through the west would be against banks and 'wealth > rents' - and it might happen if we can avoid war. > > > On Jul 3, 1:59 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > They recovered quickly because they already had been industrial > > nations and being bombed to pieces allowed them to construct new > > factories.//Am very curious about the time period you are refering to > > re "blazing" Baghdad! :-) > > > > On Jul 1, 4:08 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Germany and Japan 'lost' WW2 and seemed to recover pretty quickly. > > > Britain only finished paying off debt to the US a couple of years > > > back. France and Britain are the 'normal' colonists in Northern > > > Africa, but it's hard to work out quite what colonialism is these > > > days. I like the casino idea Rigs - Baghdad was once a place of > > > blazing night-life. > > > > > On Jun 30, 3:01 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > What exactly do the Greeks have? Ruins, olives, feta...Same with > > > > Portugal and Spain. And Ireland collapsed. Why are France and Britain > > > > fighting Libya and wasting money on yet another war? Now the English > > > > are protesting austerity measures and if it gets nasty no one will go > > > > to their extravagant Olympics. > > > > > > I doubt the USA will declare itself bankrupt and welch on its debt > > > > plus it's stuck with its military. Maybe we can turn our Baghdad > > > > embassy(1 billion and counting) into a casino- import Bunny Clubs and > > > > Disney Worlds!!! > > > > > > On Jun 29, 12:23 pm, allan deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I have been listening to the news.. it is strange.. one of the > odd things > > > > > that came up was just dumping the debt.. some one said it would > take then > > > > > 15 to 20 years to recover.. that is odd because the way that is > laided > > > > > out by the bankers the funny part is you can never recover.. the > bankers > > > > > way they can never recover.. interesting... if you do not believe > me when > > > > > is the USA 11 trillion dollar debt going to be repaid?? > > > > > > > that is bad for business if governments repay their debt.. > > > > > > > the effect of dumping the debt would be felt all over europe.. but > I think > > > > > it would really wake up governments to the bankers,, and the world > bank and > > > > > it counter part the IMF.. > > > > > I do not think the greek people are going away quietly or lay down > > > > > quietly.. the legislation passed is against their will.. > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 5:28 PM, paradox <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > You optimist, you :) > > > > > > > > On Jun 29, 3:19 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I tend to think of human nature portrayed in a triptych- the > good, the > > > > > > > bad and those in-between. There are hinges. :-) > > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 5:34 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Absolutely, you're right; there's no getting away from human > nature; > > > > > > > > thats why the idea of communism had such a hard time in > practice. > > > > > > > > > > So, we cant swim against the tide, we cant swim too far out > with the > > > > > > > > tide; it's a dilemma alright. > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 3:41 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think you can factor out greed and competition/lust > for power > > > > > > > > > whether you are talking about conquest or the accumulation > of wealth. > > > > > > > > > History is replete with examples- the challenge to papal > wealth and > > > > > > > > > control, the aristocracy, colonial rulers, national tyrants > whose > > > > > > > > > replacements sank in the same rut. It is a moral dilemma as > far as to > > > > > > > > > how to stabilize humanity with such various lacks or > talents. > > > > > > > > > Education and democracy were supposed to balance the odds- > morals and > > > > > > > > > mercy included. How has that worked out? A nation becomes > what it > > > > > > > > > admires. > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2:30 pm, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > But communism (in theory) is about every man contributing > to the > > > > > > > > > > communal pot, to be distributed by dint of a principle of > "equity". > > > > > > > > > > > > Free markets (or Capitalism, or whatever resonates) is > about man > > > > > > > > > > pursuing his own ends, for which an emergent, enabling > by-product > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > the economy (as we know it); of course, great disparities > of wealth > > > > > > > > > > (and power) are an unavoidable (some might argue > desirable) > > > > > > feature, > > > > > > > > > > as man has an unequal capacity to create value (and we > can get into > > > > > > > > > > the ethics of the "why's" and the "wherefore's"). > (Re)distribution > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > a political initiative to manage these disparities > through > > > > > > taxation. > > > > > > > > > > And yes, you're right, wealth will perpetuate "at the > top", but > > > > > > really > > > > > > > > > > as a consequence of an enhanced capacity to create even > greater > > > > > > value; > > > > > > > > > > i think that this is what tends to appear as the great > "visible > > > > > > hand". > > > > > > > > > > > > Thing about "growth", rigsy / contemplative, is it's one > of the > > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > > few mega non-zero sums around; thats what makes it so > beguiling and > > > > > > > > > > difficult to manage; so we swing from boom to bust to > boom to...:) > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2:49 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't agree- unless you are talking about Communism- > which > > > > > > flopped. > > > > > > > > > > > Man serves the economy and whichever power happens to > be in > > > > > > charge who > > > > > > > > > > > may then decide to redistribute wealth/products but > this is not a > > > > > > > > > > > voluntary agreement. But generally, wealth remains at > the top for > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > prime reason of maintaining power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 25, 3:26 am, paradox <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmm...fine points all! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets not forget though, that the economy serves man, > not the > > > > > > other way > > > > > > > > > > > > round? Just an observation regarding your suspicion > of the > > > > > > "growth" > > > > > > > > > > > > imperative in contemporary economics. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 24, 9:54 pm, Contemplative < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The key phrase for me is "relative homeostasis". I > agree > > > > > > that the > > > > > > > > > > > > > encouragement you refer to > > > > > > > > > > > > > is desirable. I am unsure of it's possibility. Our > belief > > > > > > that growth is > > > > > > > > > > > > > mandatory for our economy > > > > > > > > > > > > > encourages activities and behaviors that, I think, > out-pace > > > > > > the ability of > > > > > > > > > > > > > the natural system to > > > > > > > > > > > > > balance itself at its natural rate. I am not > convinced that > > > > > > we have a solid > > > > > > > > > > > > > enough understanding > > > > > > > > > > > > > of our own system to allow us to recognize true key > > > > > > indicators of systemic > > > > > > > > > > > > > health, rationally process > > > > > > > > > > > > > that input, and subsequently make good decisions > about the > > > > > > which conditions > > > > > > > > > > > > > we should encourage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To state it bluntly, I think our desire for growth > is > > > > > > malignant... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't mean to be doom and gloom about this, and > actually I > > > > > > think there is > > > > > > > > > > > > > reason to be optimistic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > But economics seems to me to have that > stereotypical > > > > > > characteristic of > > > > > > > > > > > > > having 20/20 vision through > > > > > > > > > > > > > the rear view mirror. Economic policy decisions > that are > > > > > > both long term and > > > > > > > > > > > > > aggressive(such as increased > > > > > > > > > > > > > home ownership) which use 'tweaks' to the system to > achieve > > > > > > the aims are > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely destructive and very > > > > > > > > > > > > > unpredictable. In a relatively isolated or > buffered system, > > > > > > they may be > > > > > > > > > > > > > more predictable, but we are not > > > > > > > > > > > > > in an economy which is either buffered or isolated. > We are > > > > > > comparatively > > > > > > > > > > > > > wide open(global), and playing > > > > > > > > > > > > > in a much bigger sandbox than we have been, say 25 > years ago. > > > > > > ...and from > > > > > > > > > > > > > my perspective, we don't > > > > > > > > > > > > > know the playing field well enough to be > aggressive, though > > > > > > we should be > > > > > > > > > > > > > looking long term. ...and by > > > > > > > > > > > > > long term, I mean more than two quarters out! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the opportunity to think this through a > bit...! > > > > > > :-)- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > -- > > > > > ( > > > > > ) > > > > > I_D Allan > > > > > > > If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > > > > > Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text - > -- ( ) I_D Allan If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
