Very interesting, Tony. Thanks :)
On Jul 14, 11:38 pm, Tony Orlow <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Rigsy and All - > > I'm sorry, but I have studied the structure of mind for decades, and > to really understand it is a bit technical. Let me start by saying > this: the question is not about the subconscious so much as about > consciousness. What is consciousness? It is akin to what is visible on > your screen right now, as opposed to all the stuff stored on your hard > disk, or all the background processes running on your computer of > which you are unaware. Consciousness is simply the set of thoughts > currently bubbled to the top of your mind. We can only pay attention > to so much at any given time, so thoughts compete for our > consciousness. For instance, the average person can retain seven > "chunks" of verbal information at a time. If you add an eighth, the > least powerful is replaced. This is why telephone numbers have a dash > in them - it breaks them into two chunks, a hopefully familiar > exchange number, and a four digit extension that hopefully will have > some pattern that makes it into fewer than four extra chunks, and why > 800 numbers so often try to turn their numbers into a word or two to > make them more memorable. In general, for different types of thought, > we have a limited number of pigeonholes to use at any given time. > > Thoughts are stimulated all the time, and when they come from outside > they are conscious, or they aren't thoughts. Every time an idea enters > consciousness, associated ideas in memory are stimulated. If their > level of stimulation exceeds that of something already in > consciousness, that conscious idea is replaced by the newly stimulated > one. When there is a lot of input, the mind becomes more selective by > upping it's threshold level so ideas have to compete more. When you go > to sleep without a lot of stimulation, your threshold gradually > decreases until thoughts that haven't been able to achieve > consciousness finally do, and in turn stimulate other thoughts. This > is the mechanism for dreams. We are essentially doing garbage > collection, filing away the thoughts of the day and clearing our > mental palette for another day's input. That is why people kept up for > days may function fine doing tasks that require no memory, but will > forget anything new almost immediately. > > This kind of association of thoughts is unconscious. It happens behind > the scenes. What we are conscious of are only the thoughts that are > most stimulated. As an example of association, say I say "red, fruit, > tree". What do you think of? The three ideas are each related to many > other ideas, but together they usually result in one: apple. So, if > you talk about red things, and about fruit, and about trees, but not > at the same time, the idea of "apple" will probably be stimulated, but > not enough to compete for consciousness, at least until you are less > stimulated and dreaming. > > These associations are the stuff of creativity and imagination, of > innovations and internal discoveries, and often bizarre and seemingly > nonsensical dreams where things seem to be connected in ways not > common in reality. > > Okay I've blabbed enough now. Sweet dreams, > > Tony > > On Jul 14, 7:46 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Yes- that is too technical for me. :-) I see the sc as the hidden > > currents of a river- at least this morning that's my view. Where do > > you think imagination and creativity spring from? Or unexplainable > > moods? Or the irrational? Don't be too technical, please. > > > On Jul 14, 3:36 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Interesting psychoanalytic approach; i'm sort of a little closer to > > > the "technical" school; seems to me that dreams and phantasies are > > > pretty much the same "stuff" as conscious thought, but without the > > > coherence, constraints, and "echolocation" of input, cognition, and > > > the autobiographical self; in that sense, we think (neural mapping) > > > pretty much 24/7, conscious, subconscious, or otherwise; it's just so > > > much more elegant when we're conscious, or daydreaming, curiously :). > > > > Re the "great conductor"; in this great cauldron of distributed > > > mapping, something has to "direct" and prioritise attention; that's > > > the job of dispositional affect (value), or emotion, through amygdala, > > > hippocampus, and associated wide area networks. Antonio Damasio has > > > produced some very interesting, very readable and easily accessible > > > works in this area. > > > > On Jul 13, 1:51 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The "great conductor" to where? The sc may color our thoughts and > > > > actions but I have a problem giving it a thought process similar to > > > > the ego or super-ego. The fact that we cannot control our sc makes us > > > > want to control it- it can be dangerous or embarassing or distracting, > > > > for instance. I do think it adds a dramatic complexity to our thoughts > > > > and actions- esp. those "Freudian slips"! :-) Another possibilty is > > > > that the sc is a warehouse for our unresolved selves that pitch and > > > > twist in our minds during dreams or daydreams and sometimes influence > > > > solutions by interrupting logic, problem solving, comprehension or > > > > relationships. It may also serve the purpose of keeping us honest- > > > > somehow the mind has to find a balance- "acting as if" only goes so > > > > far. > > > > > On Jul 13, 5:13 am, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Mando, dont forget that our thoughts are also "merely things", and > > > > > our sub-conscious also "thinks"; "emotion" is the great conductor. > > > > > > On Jul 12, 2:18 pm, Mando <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > how are we easily swayed from our thought by merely things? is that > > > > > > humans are focused or controlled by the sub-conscious...- Hide > > > > > > quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
