Spoken like a true hard determinist, RP :)
On Aug 6, 6:53 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Everything in the universe is following laws , we know where the Earth > will be ten years from now because it is following laws which are > discernible and predictable. A huge comet is detected approaching our > Earth and we are able to calculate within no time when and where it > will hit the Earth. Similarly life progressed from amoeba to the > humans according to laws of nature which are not that clear , but it > can be assumed that they are. We humans know that we are influenced by > laws of Biology , psychology , sociology etc. and if we accept that in > this vast machine, the Universe, we are also cogs which follow a > definite course we will not be wrong because we are no exception to > the general rule. In little things we know our bondage and I am > confident that in times to come we will know and accept the totality > of our bondage. > > > > On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 8:51 PM, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ah, but the determinist might argue that we must not mix up > > determinism in human action and decision making, with life-cycle path > > determinism; at the human level, the dynamics are relatively simple > > but appear to us very complex (the chemical processes regulated by > > physical laws thing above). Path determinsm is incalculably complex > > because its a massive multi-player temporal game, though it may appear > > relatively simple IF we assume free will; complex, yes; but not > > theoretically incalculable, he/she might argue. > > > On Aug 6, 8:24 am, allan deheretic <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I actually do think we really have free will, If we look back at our lives > >> from as far back as we can remember there are always choices. and we choose > >> the path we want to follow .. and the effect of those choices. once the > >> choice is made.. once the sands of time have written it moves on and can > >> never be changed.. we live with the effects of our individual choices. > >> Yes there are those with the sever problems in Africa, yes many of them are > >> man made , that also goes for the rest of the world and many of them are > >> beyond our control, what becomes important is not the situation we are in > >> but how we respond to to that situation and doing nothing is both a choice > >> and a response. How we respond to the outside stimulus is what we are held > >> accountable for. > >> Allan > > >> On Sat, Aug 6, 2011 at 1:24 AM, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Do you really, Allan? Or do you really think you do? If you always > >> > have a choice of 'A', 'B', or 'C', but you were always ever going to > >> > choose 'C', you have free will, but is your decision freely made? > > >> > On Aug 5, 8:04 pm, Allan Heretic <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > You lays have free will no matter how you seeing it created. It is the > >> > consequences of those choices that can be a bitch, > >> > > Allan > > >> > > On 4 aug. 2011, at 17:48, paradox <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > There are a number of approaches to this question, Jo; but > >> > > > essentially > >> > > > and in summary (and i do a great injustice to a very powerful > >> > > > philosophical school), the deterministic tradition suggests that > >> > > > since > >> > > > we''re fundamentally bounded chemical systems immersed in a "sea" of > >> > > > ever more elaborate chemical processes, regulated by immutable > >> > > > (replicable and predictive) physical laws, and nothing else (which > >> > > > takes you back to the mind/brain question), our actions are no more > >> > > > than expressions of these chemical processes, constrained at an > >> > > > aggregate level by universal physical laws. When we think we make > >> > > > decisions based on choice, it is the mind "stroking" itself since, in > >> > > > terms of "proximate" action, we know that our decisions are preceeded > >> > > > in time by a neuro-electrcal "footprint" (interesting work by > >> > > > Benjamin > >> > > > Libet, presented in his book "Mind Time"); and in terms of more > >> > > > deliberative action, we are pretty certain to make the same decisions > >> > > > over and over again given the same set of variables, since our > >> > > > cognition is hard wired, and its operations are governed by the self > >> > > > same chemical processes and physical laws. Hence the question: do we > >> > > > have free will? and if we do, how much free will do we have? > > >> > > > On Aug 2, 7:44 pm, Jo <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> I don't understand how some can say we don't have free will. You can > >> > > >> choose to do anything you want at any given time. How is that not > >> > > >> free > >> > > >> will? > > >> > > >> On Aug 2, 12:51 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >>> "We have access to a technology that would have looked like sorcery > >> > in > >> > > >>> Descartes's day: the ability to peer inside someone's head and read > >> > > >>> their thoughts. Unfortunately, that doesn't take us any nearer to > >> > > >>> knowing whether they are sentient. "Even if you measure brainwaves, > >> > > >>> you can never know exactly what experience they represent," says > >> > > >>> psychologist Bruce Hood at the University of Bristol, UK. If > >> > > >>> anything, brain scanning has undermined Descartes's maxim. You, > >> > > >>> too, > >> > > >>> might be a zombie. "I happen to be one myself," says Stanford > >> > > >>> University philosopher Paul Skokowski. "And so, even if you don't > >> > > >>> realise it, are you." Skokowski's assertion is based on the belief, > >> > > >>> particularly common among neuroscientists who study brain scans, > >> > > >>> that > >> > > >>> we do not have free will. There is no ghost in the machine; our > >> > > >>> actions are driven by brain states that lie entirely beyond our > >> > > >>> control. "I think, therefore I am" might be an illusion. > >> > > >>> So, it may well be that you live in a computer simulation in which > >> > you > >> > > >>> are the only self-aware creature. I could well be a zombie and so > >> > > >>> could you. Have an interesting day." (from a recent New Scientist) > > >> > > >>> We range over debates in free will and what it is to be human. So > >> > > >>> far > >> > > >>> we haven't established free will or even that we are not merely > >> > > >>> avatars in 'something else's game'. > > >> > > >>> I wonder whether there are advantages in considering ourselves as > >> > > >>> creatures limited by programming and also capable of it?- Hide > >> > > >>> quoted > >> > text - > > >> > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > >> > > - Show quoted text - > > >> -- > >> ( > >> ) > >> I_D Allan > > >> If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken > >> Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,- Hide quoted text - > > >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
