I see faith merely as our system of belief. We make a leap of faith when we move ahead into the unknown because we believe there will be an acceptable outcome although the current data does not support that assumption. The ability to believe seems innate. Our belief in God comes with the concept of God.
On Oct 5, 11:58 am, "pol.science kid" <[email protected]> wrote: > These days in india the Durga puja and Dusshera is on full blow... and > will be followed by diwali... now i was persuaded by my Ma for going > to the temple after i dont know.. a very very long time... it was > fully decorated and all... with full festive swing.... lots of > people.... i just realised how indifferent i have been to the 'faith' > i was born in... my religion.... i am not an aethieist... but i have > faith ... though it is not the faith that i saw so many people seeming > to have ... i was thinking while there... so many people paying > obeisance to the the deity... the Goddess... its hard for me to > understand... the feeling towards that Idol.... my moms totally > religious... and i DONT get her... what little i can make myself > understand is that suppose the Goddess ..the idol is supposed to > represent something.. certain values.. is it really the idea behind > the deity..why do we needs these anthromorphised Gods... for most > though i feel that it is based on fear... but not all of course.... > though i am learning to check myself the disdain i used to have for > someone totally religious ... devoutly doing all the rituals and > fasts.. cause i guess tolerance should be both ways... its a strange > feeling standing in a temple... not knowing what to feel and think.... > I agree with Molly.. though .. i want to ask... do we scientifically > outgrow Faith.. to use scientific here... is it circumstances... i > presume we all are born into a faith... i would love to talk to a > child of an atheist though... a child who is kept away from faith... > some who leave faith after certain tragedies... did they ever have > faith.... lots of confused thoughts... > > On Oct 5, 3:53 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I refer to christian mysticism because like you Molly it is the one I am > > most familiar with ,, and everything hinges on trying to understand what is > > said and meant not necessarily what the "churches" want you to accept as the > > truth.. not necessarily leading one to the truth, I believe the word > > christ comes from the greek word meaning "anointed one." that is a long way > > from arriving that Jesus is God.. unfortunately that is where today's > > christianity wants everyone to jump to.. that takes a few more hoops though > > I am not willing to arrive at the conclusion he is the son of God. > > I do not think you can out grow spirituality as it is a basic part of each > > person's being. As for being anointed I think every generation has its > > "anointed" people. The problem comes from the older generation (church) > > does not want them interfering with their cash cow they keep passing on.. > > Allan > > > On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 11:58 AM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think that being faith based may be something we outgrow, like being > > > ego based. Both have a function that we tap from time to time even > > > when outgrown because they become the repository of information and > > > attribute. That said, I do consider Christian mysticism, simply > > > because I have a more thorough understanding of it than any other form > > > of mysticism and live in a society that is more Christian based, > > > giving me a way to communicate. The idea that Christ is the > > > culmination of all men as the son of God does, I think, have a related > > > concept in every form of mysticism. Our individual view gives us each > > > our own way into the paradox of One. Life may be as simple as a > > > "force" that differentiates and unites through order and chaos and > > > other such ranges, as RP suggests. Faith, I think, in whatever form, > > > is a system of thought that can lead to a path to understanding. > > > > On Oct 4, 2:49 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I'm very much in agreement with you, Neil. But, like you, I am also > > > > suspicious of arguments which claim to base themselves on pure > > > > "reasonableness." We are much more than just rational intelligence - > > > > you mention "emotional understanding"; we are complex, forever > > > > interacting unities - personalities formed out of all sorts of aspects > > > > apart from "pure Reason," whatever that may be. > > > > > One of these aspects is our need for meaning-giving narratives, > > > > stories, myths to help us structure and find sense and fulfillment in > > > > our lives, both individually and communally. But such narratives and > > > > identity myths are immediately subject to distortion and manipulation. > > > > For them to be any way useful they need a constant open dialogue with > > > > sceptics, critics and heretics. Even classical traditional Christian > > > > theology recognised this with the concept of "ecclesia semper > > > > reformanda" - more theoretically than practically. And Dostoevsky's > > > > Grand Inquisitor is always present to manipulate and take control. > > > > > Personally, I "lost" the faith many years ago - and do not miss it. > > > > Yet I still know many great people who are motivated by faith - and > > > > I'm not talking about fundamentalist fruit and nut-cases either. > > > > > On 4 Okt., 17:34, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > oops - drat this laptop! ... was caused over a sandwich. This turned > > > > > out to be the Balkan assassination story. My view these days is that > > > > > this war started with the British invasion of Iraq in 1913 and might > > > > > be better explained from the point where various imperialist navies > > > > > (British, US, French, German and Japanese) were queuing up in 1906 off > > > > > the Chinese coast (Boxer rebellion etc.) - such analysis is way beyond > > > > > school examination 'sound bites'. > > > > > > What I'd like to see is a much more open society that was no longer > > > > > printing myths. I want my beliefs and fellowship based in an accurate > > > > > version of what human life is about and the dangers involved in > > > > > denying this. I want control to be based in Reason that leaves > > > > > emotional understanding in. What I find personally is that I repeat > > > > > the mistakes of any elite thinking or practice in being so frustrated > > > > > about general ignorance. It's not intellectually honest to believe in > > > > > the will of the majority, though one can make a lesser claim for a > > > > > society in which votes matter than perfection. > > > > > > In the past, religion often had emancipatory aims - much of its > > > > > language is about freedom from debt - and I find myself wishing one > > > > > could take part in the fellowship of such religion without corrupting > > > > > into all the sacred text belief in god nonsense - just as I don't mind > > > > > feeling proud of my country and its people as long as it's not on the > > > > > basis of jingoism and false history. Much western history is little > > > > > more than dross versions of stuff peddled by the Vatican. > > > > > > Today's religion is economics based in imperialist myth - we hide a > > > > > holocaust, indeed deny one - as in the book 'Killing Hope' - though > > > > > one need not focus on the Americans. I feel the truth of this may be > > > > > so bad that figures like Churchill, Bush, Blair and others may well > > > > > have been bag men for international finance and the preservation of an > > > > > ancien regime. I wish in many ways for a religion that stood up to > > > > > this. > > > > > > On Oct 4, 4:07 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > The ultimate answer for me is that belief in god lacks intellectual > > > > > > honesty. I wouldn't seek any argument on the existence of god - for > > > > > > me an answer either way is a rationalist fantasy - i.e. there is no > > > > > > answer. I reject most of the ideology I was brought up in as based > > > in > > > > > > fables. The idea of scripture as revelation from god doesn't appeal > > > > > > in the slightest. Most of it is wrong and flatly uninteresting - > > > > > > one > > > > > > would expect any such conversation to reveal what we don't know and > > > be > > > > > > less obviously made up by human beings. This doesn't make me > > > > > > unreligious, but does make me consider religion as person-made. > > > > > > > Much of the non-religious ideology of my youth fails for similar > > > > > > reasons. I once believed the British Empire was a fine thing and > > > > > > the > > > > > > world wars were the fault of rotten Germans and Japanese. I now > > > > > > know > > > > > > this was because more accurate history was denied me. As a kid, I > > > > > > thought the Opium Wars must have been about our brave Royal Navy > > > > > > chasing drug dealing Chinamen around, and our empire about bringing > > > > > > civilisation, fair-play and cricket to the 'undeserving'. I > > > > > > couldn't > > > > > > understand why Americans had been so dumb as to reject our rule. I > > > > > > thought our society was broadly fair and you got by on skill and > > > > > > merit. I know this was all bunk. > > > > > > > The essential component of intellectual growth is belonging to a > > > group > > > > > > free of infectious diseases - average IQ (however suspect a measure) > > > > > > is reduced by this kind of disease. Over the years I've found some > > > > > > solace in science, but it's clear this form of reasoning is only a > > > > > > starting place. We lack any proper account of what science is, and > > > as > > > > > > usual the widely held ideas are plain wrong. Science is not value- > > > > > > free or intellectually linear and requires massive effort, passion > > > and > > > > > > some clear-break thinking and a gereat deal of training on what > > > > > > evidence amounts to and how it fits with theories. Its quest is > > > truth > > > > > > but a quest is not truth. > > > > > > > My grandson (14) is having a hard time at school just now and like > > > > > > most teenagers knows more or less 'sweet FA' - other than how to get > > > > > > into arguments with his mother and into detention. He came home > > > > > > with > > > > > > s story that > > ... > > read more »
