I think of these ultra moments like this- when you hear two levels of
conversation-maybe more- as you catch intent, motives, etc. Sort of
like Edith Wharton could analyse a tone or thrust but also one could
include body language. Or noticing the tears that compose the flesh of
an orange- seeing past and inside the structure- also includes texture
and pattern. Yes- there are also those moments when there is an
exhilaration of all parts working together in harmony- it's a lift
near flight!

On Oct 13, 7:12 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wish I did rigsy - something that just looked or listened through
> the noise and found the signal.  I've had the odd feeling in sport -
> the days when their fast bowling just flies off the middle of the bat
> and the odd mazy run and immaculate pass in rugby - you feel a
> coordination as though something central is guiding you - but this is
> really about the training effort.  Most intellectual effort feels more
> like your head's been banging against walls, the same problems
> defeating effort to penetrate.  I did music to 'grade six'- about A
> level - with little talent and watch my grandson play the guitar much
> better than me with no ability to read music.  I don't think any of it
> is really about talent in these senses or even Polanyi's 'tacit
> knowledge' or dimension.
>
> My own suspicion is the external stimuli are much more complex than we
> generally pay attention to and are over-simplified.  I kind of see
> "mind's eye" as something that needs to be out there for multiple
> efforts of interpretation. Instead there are Idols - more or less
> 'pornography'.  One can cut through this as in individual - in science
> one can then offer explanation to other trained minds - but in the
> wider sense of peer group (society) one has the added problem of
> needing (and taking reluctant responsibility) to change much more
> sensitive positions of others.  This work is generally on incompetence
> and getting people to admit to it (not forgetting one's own and
> questionable duties to do it).  What we have instead is neurosis and
> paranoid-schizoid positioning   I see no introspective 'cure' or
> 'undiscovered organ'.
>
> On Oct 14, 12:11 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yes- we don't hear or see with the keen senses of early mankind- they
> > have dulled. I think radio promoted imagination- there were soaps,
> > children's programs, comedy, lots of music. Also the nuns used to read
> > us fiction before bedtime. Some things suffer when made into film or
> > tv programs if the casting is bad or jars with your own image.//I have
> > a problem with quantities/volumes- like Goldilocks, it sometimes takes
> > three times until it is "just right"!//I really liked geometry in
> > highschool but gave up during algebra- I think it had something to do
> > with dating and boys- 10th grade- and what was considered "feminine".
> > But I use math and science in practical ways all the time around home
> > and like a lot of "male" interests like carpentry, cement work, etc.
> > though I don't have as much energy but neither did Tolstoy eventually.
>
> > Do you feel you have an inner eye and ear?
>
> > On Oct 13, 10:29 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Loads of stugg comes up on googling images related to the term 'Mind's
> > > Eye' - not surprisingly a lot of the stuff has an eye in it.  I tend
> > > to run the 'eye' bit out in my pondering on what a mind's eye might
> > > be.  Some former science colleagues better at maths than me used to
> > > try and describe 'visualisation' - how they could manipulate images of
> > > geometry involving complex shapes and transformations.  I could never
> > > do this and even have trouble working out what happens to, say, door
> > > hinges if you turn the door upside down and round-a-bout.  I could
> > > often 'guess' how a complex system of transformations would end up,
> > > but could never 'see the process' as some claimed.  This was something
> > > of a handicap in some stochastic work with molecule shape.
>
> > > I'm watching an old Oliver film and have no sympathy with Oliver - all
> > > with the other kids and the brilliantly played evil roles.  I often
> > > have a lot of difficulty 'seeing' what others are being suckered by in
> > > propaganda directly and instead a form of critique of the stuff
> > > arises.  I really dislike, say, Huckleberry Finn being played by the
> > > rich director's all too clean kid.  I have a cinematic daydreaming
> > > imagination, but no imaging comes from words when someone says 'table'
> > > - my sister 'sees' gargoyles if you say the word.
>
> > > I'm struck there is no 'eye' in mind's eye even though I might as well
> > > be in a cinema when daydreaming.  Though one might ask if what I see
> > > 'in cinema' relies on past sight - though again I'm not usually
> > > 'seeing' recalled events.  I find the artist's attempts at 'mind's
> > > eye' disappointing.
>
> > > I'm unsure how I notice so strongly that "economics" (a subject I
> > > teach with no enthusiasm) is just a 'smell of words' around and
> > > obvious failure in human cooperation always leading to a very small
> > > number amassing riches.  It's like a gas keeping he truth-seeker at
> > > bay.  We are as far from the double-helix in this as the tribe that
> > > denies paternity through sex, investing it instead in ghosts with the
> > > 'father role' played by maternal uncles.
>
> > > It's been my view for many years that argument fails except in very
> > > special circumstances.  The Greeks knew this because equally powerful
> > > argument could be adduced for many different views.  They invented a
> > > kind of "mind's eye" (see Pyhrronism) in which competing arguments
> > > could be assessed.  This is rather too expert for me.  I suspect that
> > > what we can't do is strip argument of its propaganda, and suspect
> > > again this is a matter of fear of violence in challenging 'deeply'
> > > held views - and further that these views are ill-considered dross.
> > > One can feel another danger here of the zealot and know-all.  In my
> > > mind's eye argument comes with smells, emotions, incredulity,
> > > doubt,probability ... and the coldest, most lying voice of all is the
> > > disinfected smell of the objective voice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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