I think that depends upon how strong the message is.. but even then if you think about the parable Jesus used of the seeds.. no matter how strong the message and the person was there are many who will lose faith. Allan
On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:19 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > I've long wondered how we can suspect the prophet without losing faith > in the message. > > On Oct 15, 1:44 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > The path between dismorphing and disinformation is narrow, that's right, > > Neil. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 12:52 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Cunning use of repetition Gabby. > > > > > On Oct 14, 6:02 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > One might also be inclined to see something like "I mag I nation" as > a > > > form > > > > of awakened imagination. Whether YOU would want to see it used more > in > > > the > > > > world then, I'd dare to question. > > > > > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Do you think it too far off the mark to understand the mind's eye > as > > > > > imag-in-ation? the notion of the "awakened imagination" takes us > from > > > > > a functional fantasy to a mystical truth. Whether considered a > sense > > > > > or an organ, I would like to see it used more in the world. > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 8:12 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I wish I did rigsy - something that just looked or listened > through > > > > > > the noise and found the signal. I've had the odd feeling in > sport - > > > > > > the days when their fast bowling just flies off the middle of the > bat > > > > > > and the odd mazy run and immaculate pass in rugby - you feel a > > > > > > coordination as though something central is guiding you - but > this is > > > > > > really about the training effort. Most intellectual effort feels > > > more > > > > > > like your head's been banging against walls, the same problems > > > > > > defeating effort to penetrate. I did music to 'grade six'- about > A > > > > > > level - with little talent and watch my grandson play the guitar > much > > > > > > better than me with no ability to read music. I don't think any > of > > > it > > > > > > is really about talent in these senses or even Polanyi's 'tacit > > > > > > knowledge' or dimension. > > > > > > > > My own suspicion is the external stimuli are much more complex > than > > > we > > > > > > generally pay attention to and are over-simplified. I kind of > see > > > > > > "mind's eye" as something that needs to be out there for multiple > > > > > > efforts of interpretation. Instead there are Idols - more or less > > > > > > 'pornography'. One can cut through this as in individual - in > > > science > > > > > > one can then offer explanation to other trained minds - but in > the > > > > > > wider sense of peer group (society) one has the added problem of > > > > > > needing (and taking reluctant responsibility) to change much more > > > > > > sensitive positions of others. This work is generally on > > > incompetence > > > > > > and getting people to admit to it (not forgetting one's own and > > > > > > questionable duties to do it). What we have instead is neurosis > and > > > > > > paranoid-schizoid positioning I see no introspective 'cure' or > > > > > > 'undiscovered organ'. > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 12:11 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Yes- we don't hear or see with the keen senses of early > mankind- > > > they > > > > > > > have dulled. I think radio promoted imagination- there were > soaps, > > > > > > > children's programs, comedy, lots of music. Also the nuns used > to > > > read > > > > > > > us fiction before bedtime. Some things suffer when made into > film > > > or > > > > > > > tv programs if the casting is bad or jars with your own > image.//I > > > have > > > > > > > a problem with quantities/volumes- like Goldilocks, it > sometimes > > > takes > > > > > > > three times until it is "just right"!//I really liked geometry > in > > > > > > > highschool but gave up during algebra- I think it had something > to > > > do > > > > > > > with dating and boys- 10th grade- and what was considered > > > "feminine". > > > > > > > But I use math and science in practical ways all the time > around > > > home > > > > > > > and like a lot of "male" interests like carpentry, cement work, > > > etc. > > > > > > > though I don't have as much energy but neither did Tolstoy > > > eventually. > > > > > > > > > Do you feel you have an inner eye and ear? > > > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 10:29 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Loads of stugg comes up on googling images related to the > term > > > > > 'Mind's > > > > > > > > Eye' - not surprisingly a lot of the stuff has an eye in it. > I > > > tend > > > > > > > > to run the 'eye' bit out in my pondering on what a mind's eye > > > might > > > > > > > > be. Some former science colleagues better at maths than me > used > > > to > > > > > > > > try and describe 'visualisation' - how they could manipulate > > > images > > > > > of > > > > > > > > geometry involving complex shapes and transformations. I > could > > > never > > > > > > > > do this and even have trouble working out what happens to, > say, > > > door > > > > > > > > hinges if you turn the door upside down and round-a-bout. I > > > could > > > > > > > > often 'guess' how a complex system of transformations would > end > > > up, > > > > > > > > but could never 'see the process' as some claimed. This was > > > > > something > > > > > > > > of a handicap in some stochastic work with molecule shape. > > > > > > > > > > I'm watching an old Oliver film and have no sympathy with > Oliver > > > - > > > > > all > > > > > > > > with the other kids and the brilliantly played evil roles. I > > > often > > > > > > > > have a lot of difficulty 'seeing' what others are being > suckered > > > by > > > > > in > > > > > > > > propaganda directly and instead a form of critique of the > stuff > > > > > > > > arises. I really dislike, say, Huckleberry Finn being played > by > > > the > > > > > > > > rich director's all too clean kid. I have a cinematic > > > daydreaming > > > > > > > > imagination, but no imaging comes from words when someone > says > > > > > 'table' > > > > > > > > - my sister 'sees' gargoyles if you say the word. > > > > > > > > > > I'm struck there is no 'eye' in mind's eye even though I > might as > > > > > well > > > > > > > > be in a cinema when daydreaming. Though one might ask if > what I > > > see > > > > > > > > 'in cinema' relies on past sight - though again I'm not > usually > > > > > > > > 'seeing' recalled events. I find the artist's attempts at > > > 'mind's > > > > > > > > eye' disappointing. > > > > > > > > > > I'm unsure how I notice so strongly that "economics" (a > subject I > > > > > > > > teach with no enthusiasm) is just a 'smell of words' around > and > > > > > > > > obvious failure in human cooperation always leading to a very > > > small > > > > > > > > number amassing riches. It's like a gas keeping he > truth-seeker > > > at > > > > > > > > bay. We are as far from the double-helix in this as the > tribe > > > that > > > > > > > > denies paternity through sex, investing it instead in ghosts > with > > > the > > > > > > > > 'father role' played by maternal uncles. > > > > > > > > > > It's been my view for many years that argument fails except > in > > > very > > > > > > > > special circumstances. The Greeks knew this because equally > > > powerful > > > > > > > > argument could be adduced for many different views. They > > > invented a > > > > > > > > kind of "mind's eye" (see Pyhrronism) in which competing > > > arguments > > > > > > > > could be assessed. This is rather too expert for me. I > suspect > > > that > > > > > > > > what we can't do is strip argument of its propaganda, and > suspect > > > > > > > > again this is a matter of fear of violence in challenging > > > 'deeply' > > > > > > > > held views - and further that these views are ill-considered > > > dross. > > > > > > > > One can feel another danger here of the zealot and know-all. > In > > > my > > > > > > > > mind's eye argument comes with smells, emotions, incredulity, > > > > > > > > doubt,probability ... and the coldest, most lying voice of > all is > > > the > > > > > > > > disinfected smell of the objective voice. > -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
