BBC-radio- had a report on the large Christian population of China,
which surprised me. It is supposed to be the fastest growing area for
Christianity. That could get testy.
Hoffer offers a very critical view of Jesus- paints him as a divider
and anti-female. ("The True Believer".) I think the Good Steward is a
parable I think of often- also the business about hiding one's light
under a bushel. Are you thinking of the mustard seed? Gosh- it's been
a long time since I've read the New Testament. I may be getting Jesus
confused with Aesop.
On Oct 15, 2:05 am, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
> I think that depends upon how strong the message is..
>
> but even then if you think about the parable Jesus used of the seeds.. no
> matter how strong the message and the person was there are many who will
> lose faith.
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:19 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I've long wondered how we can suspect the prophet without losing faith
> > in the message.
>
> > On Oct 15, 1:44 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > The path between dismorphing and disinformation is narrow, that's right,
> > > Neil.
>
> > > On Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 12:52 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > Cunning use of repetition Gabby.
>
> > > > On Oct 14, 6:02 pm, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > One might also be inclined to see something like "I mag I nation" as
> > a
> > > > form
> > > > > of awakened imagination. Whether YOU would want to see it used more
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > world then, I'd dare to question.
>
> > > > > On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > Do you think it too far off the mark to understand the mind's eye
> > as
> > > > > > imag-in-ation? the notion of the "awakened imagination" takes us
> > from
> > > > > > a functional fantasy to a mystical truth. Whether considered a
> > sense
> > > > > > or an organ, I would like to see it used more in the world.
>
> > > > > > On Oct 13, 8:12 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > I wish I did rigsy - something that just looked or listened
> > through
> > > > > > > the noise and found the signal. I've had the odd feeling in
> > sport -
> > > > > > > the days when their fast bowling just flies off the middle of the
> > bat
> > > > > > > and the odd mazy run and immaculate pass in rugby - you feel a
> > > > > > > coordination as though something central is guiding you - but
> > this is
> > > > > > > really about the training effort. Most intellectual effort feels
> > > > more
> > > > > > > like your head's been banging against walls, the same problems
> > > > > > > defeating effort to penetrate. I did music to 'grade six'- about
> > A
> > > > > > > level - with little talent and watch my grandson play the guitar
> > much
> > > > > > > better than me with no ability to read music. I don't think any
> > of
> > > > it
> > > > > > > is really about talent in these senses or even Polanyi's 'tacit
> > > > > > > knowledge' or dimension.
>
> > > > > > > My own suspicion is the external stimuli are much more complex
> > than
> > > > we
> > > > > > > generally pay attention to and are over-simplified. I kind of
> > see
> > > > > > > "mind's eye" as something that needs to be out there for multiple
> > > > > > > efforts of interpretation. Instead there are Idols - more or less
> > > > > > > 'pornography'. One can cut through this as in individual - in
> > > > science
> > > > > > > one can then offer explanation to other trained minds - but in
> > the
> > > > > > > wider sense of peer group (society) one has the added problem of
> > > > > > > needing (and taking reluctant responsibility) to change much more
> > > > > > > sensitive positions of others. This work is generally on
> > > > incompetence
> > > > > > > and getting people to admit to it (not forgetting one's own and
> > > > > > > questionable duties to do it). What we have instead is neurosis
> > and
> > > > > > > paranoid-schizoid positioning I see no introspective 'cure' or
> > > > > > > 'undiscovered organ'.
>
> > > > > > > On Oct 14, 12:11 am, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Yes- we don't hear or see with the keen senses of early
> > mankind-
> > > > they
> > > > > > > > have dulled. I think radio promoted imagination- there were
> > soaps,
> > > > > > > > children's programs, comedy, lots of music. Also the nuns used
> > to
> > > > read
> > > > > > > > us fiction before bedtime. Some things suffer when made into
> > film
> > > > or
> > > > > > > > tv programs if the casting is bad or jars with your own
> > image.//I
> > > > have
> > > > > > > > a problem with quantities/volumes- like Goldilocks, it
> > sometimes
> > > > takes
> > > > > > > > three times until it is "just right"!//I really liked geometry
> > in
> > > > > > > > highschool but gave up during algebra- I think it had something
> > to
> > > > do
> > > > > > > > with dating and boys- 10th grade- and what was considered
> > > > "feminine".
> > > > > > > > But I use math and science in practical ways all the time
> > around
> > > > home
> > > > > > > > and like a lot of "male" interests like carpentry, cement work,
> > > > etc.
> > > > > > > > though I don't have as much energy but neither did Tolstoy
> > > > eventually.
>
> > > > > > > > Do you feel you have an inner eye and ear?
>
> > > > > > > > On Oct 13, 10:29 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Loads of stugg comes up on googling images related to the
> > term
> > > > > > 'Mind's
> > > > > > > > > Eye' - not surprisingly a lot of the stuff has an eye in it.
> > I
> > > > tend
> > > > > > > > > to run the 'eye' bit out in my pondering on what a mind's eye
> > > > might
> > > > > > > > > be. Some former science colleagues better at maths than me
> > used
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > > try and describe 'visualisation' - how they could manipulate
> > > > images
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > geometry involving complex shapes and transformations. I
> > could
> > > > never
> > > > > > > > > do this and even have trouble working out what happens to,
> > say,
> > > > door
> > > > > > > > > hinges if you turn the door upside down and round-a-bout. I
> > > > could
> > > > > > > > > often 'guess' how a complex system of transformations would
> > end
> > > > up,
> > > > > > > > > but could never 'see the process' as some claimed. This was
> > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > of a handicap in some stochastic work with molecule shape.
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm watching an old Oliver film and have no sympathy with
> > Oliver
> > > > -
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > > > with the other kids and the brilliantly played evil roles. I
> > > > often
> > > > > > > > > have a lot of difficulty 'seeing' what others are being
> > suckered
> > > > by
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > propaganda directly and instead a form of critique of the
> > stuff
> > > > > > > > > arises. I really dislike, say, Huckleberry Finn being played
> > by
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > rich director's all too clean kid. I have a cinematic
> > > > daydreaming
> > > > > > > > > imagination, but no imaging comes from words when someone
> > says
> > > > > > 'table'
> > > > > > > > > - my sister 'sees' gargoyles if you say the word.
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm struck there is no 'eye' in mind's eye even though I
> > might as
> > > > > > well
> > > > > > > > > be in a cinema when daydreaming. Though one might ask if
> > what I
> > > > see
> > > > > > > > > 'in cinema' relies on past sight - though again I'm not
> > usually
> > > > > > > > > 'seeing' recalled events. I find the artist's attempts at
> > > > 'mind's
> > > > > > > > > eye' disappointing.
>
> > > > > > > > > I'm unsure how I notice so strongly that "economics" (a
> > subject I
> > > > > > > > > teach with no enthusiasm) is just a 'smell of words' around
> > and
> > > > > > > > > obvious failure in human cooperation always leading to a very
> > > > small
> > > > > > > > > number amassing riches. It's like a gas keeping he
> > truth-seeker
> > > > at
> > > > > > > > > bay. We are as far from the double-helix in this as the
> > tribe
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > denies paternity through sex, investing it instead in ghosts
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > 'father role' played by maternal uncles.
>
> > > > > > > > > It's been my view for many years that argument fails except
> > in
> > > > very
> > > > > > > > > special circumstances. The Greeks knew this because equally
> > > > powerful
> > > > > > > > > argument could be adduced for many different views. They
> > > > invented a
> > > > > > > > > kind of "mind's eye" (see Pyhrronism) in which competing
> > > > arguments
> > > > > > > > > could be assessed. This is rather too expert for me. I
> > suspect
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > > what we can't do is strip argument of its propaganda, and
> > suspect
> > > > > > > > > again this is a matter of fear of violence in challenging
> > > > 'deeply'
> > > > > > > > > held views - and further that these views are ill-considered
> > > > dross.
> > > > > > > > > One can feel another danger here of the zealot and know-all.
> > In
> > > > my
> > > > > > > > > mind's eye argument comes with smells, emotions, incredulity,
> > > > > > > > > doubt,probability ... and the coldest, most lying voice of
> > all is
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > disinfected smell of the objective voice.
>
> --
> (
> )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text -
>
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