I think we have to admit to some inevitability of power relations - objectivity gets as invasive as bully-power if we aren't careful.
On Oct 17, 2:27 pm, James Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: > Personal power seems part and parcel to living authentically (whatever > that might mean), motive and intent buried in the basis of authority. > I take your meaning is that there are a few deeply rooted memes for a > weak basis on authority, and it makes me wonder about how we assess a > disproportionate amount of authority on achievement and how this gets > corrupted by the apparent values celebrated in our society. Is this in > dissonance with nature, I wonder, or are we as mesmerized by it as the > bird or fish to a shiny object. I'm trying to scrap out a few > paragraphs here and there on rhetoric and writing to get a grasp of my > own, hopefully it will light a fire under my pen. An act of futility > perhaps.. > > On 10/15/11, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think we are all stuck. Certainly there are many memes that > > are, and many that are not. Spiral Dynamics is a good model that > > allows us to understand the states and stages of humanity, and how we > > each spiral up and down them in our lifetime. Someone who can't see > > past their ethnocentric or egocentric view will play the power card. > > > On Oct 14, 10:42 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I once lived amongst mice - it was a university psychology thingy. I > >> first wondered why the subordinate mice didn't overthrow the king > >> mouse and he (he was always male) always kept his crew in vicious > >> check ans "poverty". I knew the underling males could be trained and > >> fed to defeat him. Later I just saw that nothing changed except the > >> identity of the king mouse. I grew to quite like individual mice but > >> not the mouse society. > >> Currently, though we have an extensive understanding of genetic- > >> environment-evolution stuff - sufficient at least to make most nature- > >> nurture debate old hat - we are still stuck in a misunderstanding of > >> our animal situation and in dire myths that hide the nature of motives > >> even from those who lay claim to extirpate ideology. One wants to > >> live and let live, yet this is never enough. We need 'power' of some > >> kind to negate power itself - or fatalism. > > >> On Oct 14, 2:03 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > Though motives can work themselves into a snarl- like yarn or string- > >> > and one often needs time (maturity and education) to follow the path > >> > backwards. (The Labyrinth myth comes to mind.) > > >> > On Oct 14, 1:36 am, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > Man is bound by God through genetics , environment etc. , but all of > >> > > it so hidden that to an individual he is absolutely free , and free he > >> > > is as he is the agent , it is he who decides and acts and as such the > >> > > bonds beings so subtle as to be unconscious , he is consciously doing > >> > > everything freely.If we can be aware of our real motives we can > >> > > control our actions to some degree and it is in that way that > >> > > knowledge of our hidden motives can help us. > > >> > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:41 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > > I like the theme RP - but what of being 'bound' by > >> > > > genetics/evolution/ > >> > > > environment - which gives some clues on how to escape through > >> > > > knowledge? > > >> > > > On Oct 13, 4:30 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> It is God who binds you and not you yourself , and so you are > >> > > >> accountable to yourself and society , but not to God. In this world > >> > > >> you are doing everything freely , but in God's presence you are > >> > > >> just a > >> > > >> puppet. If I am bound to err , it doesn't absolve me of the action > >> > > >> as > >> > > >> it has been done by me , and if you hurt me , again you are > >> > > >> accountable for it as it is done by you. It is only in God's > >> > > >> presence > >> > > >> that you are innocent as you are a puppet in his hand , but in > >> > > >> man's > >> > > >> world you are accountable and responsible for every action unless > >> > > >> society frees you of that responsibility on the grounds of insanity > >> > > >> on > >> > > >> your part. You are always the agent and as such always responsible > >> > > >> for > >> > > >> your every action and inaction. > > >> > > >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> > When everything is predetermined... and if we all accept that as > >> > > >> > fact... accountability is without meaning ! > > >> > > >> > Accountability has a meaning when I have a choice in the matter, > >> > > >> > and > >> > > >> > if I am aware of that personal freedom. > > >> > > >> > On Oct 13, 7:46 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> >> When everything is predetermined , the obvious truth that it is > >> > > >> >> man > >> > > >> >> who is acting , makes man accountable to man and society and > >> > > >> >> not to > >> > > >> >> God. > > >> > > >> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Vam <[email protected]> > >> > > >> >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> > But I couldn't see the rational thread between the "God > >> > > >> >> > alone..." > >> > > >> >> > premise and its "Man alone..." derivative ! > > >> > > >> >> > On Oct 13, 7:20 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > > >> >> >> I rather like the idea RP, of the corollary. > > >> > > >> >> >> On Oct 13, 3:02 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > >> >> >> > AS everything good and evil is done by God's dictates and > >> > > >> >> >> > everything > >> > > >> >> >> > that a man endures is from God's pleasure , the corollary > >> > > >> >> >> > follows -- > >> > > >> >> >> > whatever a man does , he is free to do and accountable to > >> > > >> >> >> > man and > >> > > >> >> >> > society.- Hide quoted text - > > >> > > - Show quoted text - > > -- > Please do not put me on forwarding lists or submit my address to cute > online greetings or anything else for that matter. If you must, please > forward me in BCC and send me a link to cute greetings. Many thanks!
