Quoting from scriptures and ancient books is alright but in today's world science and common sense rules. There are millions of people now , who though being quite moral , do not take the scriptures to be the final word. Ultimately , a man is selfish but the truth is that many of us think beyond our personal ends to the larger good of the society , and if that is what we want to do , our very self-interest becomes humanitarian in effect.
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: > From Brihadaranyaka Upanishad ( one of the oldest ) : > > "Verily, not for the sake of the husband, my dear, is the husband > loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self which, in its true > nature, is one with the Supreme Self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of the wife, my dear, is the wife loved, but > she is loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of the sons, my dear, are the sons loved, > hut they are loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of wealth, my dear, is wealth loved, but it > is loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of the brahmin, my dear, is the brahmin > loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of the kshatriya, my dear, is the kshatriya > loved, but he is loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of the worlds, my dear, are the worlds > loved, but they are loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of the gods, my dear, are the gods loved, > but they are loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, not for the sake of the beings, my dear, are the beings > loved, but they are loved for the sake of the self. > > Verily, not for the sake of the All, my dear, is the All loved, but it > is loved for the sake of the self. > > "Verily, my dear Maitreyi, it is the Self that should be realized— > should be heard of, reflected on, and meditated upon. > > By the realization of the Self, my dear—through hearing, reflection, > and meditation—all this is known. > > On Oct 23, 11:55 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> To feel concern for others or love , is a human feeling and a person >> tries to better the lot of the less fortunate. There is nothing >> Eastern or Western about this , but it is only a humane sentiment and >> is common to all societies. If I make the lives of a few others happy >> I feel happy about it , but that doesn't mean that my behavior is >> self-centered , rather it would be so if I acted for my personal >> well-being at the expense of others. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Vam <[email protected]> wrote: >> > I do not understand much that has been said here... really. >> >> > What I can make out is this talk of doing something "for others." This >> > is shit. You don't do anything for others, because you can't. You can >> > only do something for yourself. Now, if you believe that owning half >> > the world or a huge mansion, or a carpeting that takes you 3" into the >> > ground is what you want to do for yourself... then that's what you'll >> > do ! >> >> > The entire suggestion of doing something for others rests on the >> > premise that that's what makes me happy. If it doesn't, then one >> > wouldn't do it. And, even if one does because one is forced to do, it >> > wouldn't make one happy. Which doesn't help the person... in his >> > becoming happy ! >> >> > That's the Eastern thing... I help others because I want to help >> > myself... because that's the only way I can help myself ! >> >> > On Oct 23, 4:48 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Somewhat related: >> >> >> "42 >> >> >> Note how perverse is the attitude of the weak toward their >> >> benefactors. They feel generosity as oppression; they want to >> >> retaliate. They say to their benefactors: ' May the day come when you >> >> shall be weak and we will send bundles to America.' >> >> >> You do not win the weak by sharing your wealth with them; it will but >> >> infect them with greed and resentment. You can win the weak only by >> >> sharing your pride, hope or hatred with them." >> >> >> from "The Passionate State of Mind" By Eric Hoffer >> >> >> On Oct 22, 8:42 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > One could hold Marx accountable for the horrors of the Soviet Union >> >> > and China under Mao. Not his economic analysis but some of >> >> > revolutionary urging - though surely countless abuses by the "noble >> >> > class" are worse. I did some shameful stuff handling informants in >> >> > our stupid war in Northern Ireland, excusing it at the time under a >> >> > greater good I now know false. We ran an even bloodier war in >> >> > Indonesia (28,000 dead) most in the UK were not aware of at the time >> >> > and many don't know about now (though it's no longer secret). >> >> >> > I've been led to believe we can't really discuss much on society >> >> > unless we address the realities of world power and its links to the >> >> > money system the rich dominate. Otherwise one more or less cops out >> >> > and makes a living. Teaching has led me to realise how scant my own >> >> > knowledge is, but also the lack of interest most people have in >> >> > learning more than what gets them by. >> >> >> > We now have the technology to show how many things link up and that >> >> > the "riches" developed in a shadow banking system that is bigger than >> >> > the real economy several times over are fictitious and merely suck >> >> > value out of toil - and the same technology could also regulate the >> >> > economy through 'transparent money' - instead it's used for the >> >> > opposite purpose and also supports the military complex. This is >> >> > obvious but people still don't get it. >> >> >> > On Oct 22, 7:47 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > Life is always full of cause and effects. Everyone is accountable for >> >> > > the >> >> > > effects caused by their actions,, even if you claim to have no >> >> > > choice.... >> >> > > Allan >> >> >> > > On Sat, Oct 22, 2011 at 7:48 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > People 'escape' responsibility in fictitious ways all the time RP - >> >> > > > though I agree that inevitably one can't. I'm always saddened by >> >> > > > those who stress we should have communism or capitalism and can't >> >> > > > see >> >> > > > there is some kind of loop. They want to reduce everything to a >> >> > > > kind >> >> > > > of baby-talk more appropriate to sport locker rooms than responsible >> >> > > > dialogue. The escape from responsibility is into world-views that >> >> > > > exclude the other and especially consequences for others. >> >> >> > > > On Oct 22, 6:26 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > To be held accountable for one's actions , doesn't it look scary >> >> > > > > when >> >> > > > > you know you couldn't have done otherwise given your personality >> >> > > > > at >> >> > > > > the given time and the circumstances. Yet we cannot escape >> >> > > > > responsibility ! >> >> >> > > > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 11:41 PM, archytas <[email protected]> >> >> > > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > > I like the theme RP - but what of being 'bound' by >> >> > > > > > genetics/evolution/ >> >> > > > > > environment - which gives some clues on how to escape through >> >> > > > > > knowledge? >> >> >> > > > > > On Oct 13, 4:30 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> It is God who binds you and not you yourself , and so you are >> >> > > > > >> accountable to yourself and society , but not to God. In this >> >> > > > > >> world >> >> > > > > >> you are doing everything freely , but in God's presence you >> >> > > > > >> are just a >> >> > > > > >> puppet. If I am bound to err , it doesn't absolve me of the >> >> > > > > >> action as >> >> > > > > >> it has been done by me , and if you hurt me , again you are >> >> > > > > >> accountable for it as it is done by you. It is only in God's >> >> > > > > >> presence >> >> > > > > >> that you are innocent as you are a puppet in his hand , but in >> >> > > > > >> man's >> >> > > > > >> world you are accountable and responsible for every action >> >> > > > > >> unless >> >> > > > > >> society frees you of that responsibility on the grounds of >> >> > > > > >> insanity on >> >> > > > > >> your part. You are always the agent and as such always >> >> > > > > >> responsible for >> >> > > > > >> your every action and inaction. >> >> >> > > > > >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:36 PM, Vam <[email protected]> >> >> > > > > >> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> > When everything is predetermined... and if we all accept >> >> > > > > >> > that as >> >> > > > > >> > fact... accountability is without meaning ! >> >> >> > > > > >> > Accountability has a meaning when I have a choice in the >> >> > > > > >> > matter, and >> >> > > > > >> > if I am aware of that personal freedom. >> >> >> > > > > >> > On Oct 13, 7:46 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> When everything is predetermined , the obvious truth that >> >> > > > > >> >> it is man >> >> > > > > >> >> who is acting , makes man accountable to man and society >> >> > > > > >> >> and not >> >> > > > to >> >> > > > > >> >> God. >> >> >> > > > > >> >> On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 8:10 PM, Vam <[email protected]> >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> > But I couldn't see the rational thread between the "God >> >> > > > > >> >> > alone..." >> >> > > > > >> >> > premise and its "Man alone..." derivative ! >> >> >> > > > > >> >> > On Oct 13, 7:20 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > >> >> >> I rather like the idea RP, of the corollary. >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> On Oct 13, 3:02 pm, RP Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > AS everything good and evil is done by God's dictates >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > and >> >> > > > everything >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > that a man endures is from God's pleasure , the >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > corollary >> >> > > > follows -- >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > whatever a man does , he is free to do and accountable >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > to man >> >> > > > and >> >> > > > > >> >> >> > society. >> >> >> > > -- >> >> > > ( >> >> > > ) >> >> > > |_D Allan >> >> >> > > Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.- Hide quoted text - >> >> >> > - Show quoted text -
