Maybe the worst prisons around like the ones use for gangs but a good idea..
oddly though I think if I am right they will have a real surprise coming at their death especially when they find there is no wealth and the world they know disappears,, I know it sounds funny they will create their own hell far beyond what you and I can imagine,, If one is supposed to live a spiritual life.. how does a person justify a life of material gain at the expense of others? Allan On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 12:01 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > Many of my scientific colleagues believe the kind of bureaucrats we > have to suffer deserve long prison sentences - then we'll hang them! > > On Nov 8, 8:55 pm, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote: > > to limits moneys access to politics is what is going to have to happen,, > > not allowing corporations involvement at all.. but like the problem will > > be greed and the need for secrecy. the politicians will not like having > > ever word recorded and every word said to them,, and extreme penalties > to > > violating the rules including prison time for all involved.. and loss of > > all money for family members and relatives especially if the source of > the > > money is the person violating the laws > > > > it will not be popular with the 1% > > Allan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:11 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Point 11 has traditionally been the Marxist line. The modern ones > > > like David Harvey talk of 'surplus capital' chasing ever diminishing > > > rates of return. I see the problem as us not being able to get what > > > we sensibly want, like warm homes without vast energy bills and the > > > environmental knock on and meaningful engagement as the social animals > > > we are. One of the interesting things at the moment is that there are > > > similarities between the usual right wing hatred of taxation and the > > > extent to which we are all 'taxed' by the rich and their Monopoly > > > games with money - how much of our work is funneled away by financial > > > services that increasingly look like organised crime or so Bill Gates > > > can 'redistribute on our behalf'? > > > > > One question has to be the extent to which we may be understanding > > > what's been going on 'unconsciously' and may be able to respond at > > > that level. Every test we can do shows that people are not appraised > > > of the facts, but the danger with this is that we then treat everyone > > > as morons for not knowing. I have classes I can teach to pass maths > > > tests at the end of a day's teaching with some in them who can't > > > remember the basics the following day when I try to push on to what > > > matters. These same people are often pretty competent at actual tasks > > > involving the maths if I routinise the stuff into software choice. > > > One can do this with quite complex social reasoning - but 'who writes > > > the software' remains an issue. And at bottom Gabby isn't the problem > > > about trusting anyone to do the planning because we fear they will rip > > > us off or turn 'totalist'? And behind this another fear that we can't > > > do the planning ourselves without creating such monsters? > > > > > On Nov 7, 7:35 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Yep, that's where I see IT having accepted their position too. > > > > the following day > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 8:13 AM, Allan H <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > In point 11 *It *seems the corporations and the people who lead > them > > > are > > > > > already social paths > > > > > Allan > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 7:11 AM, archytas <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > >> What strikes me on public dialogue is that we get a lot of > opposing > > > > >> views put forward that are all based in ideology that can be > stripped > > > > >> so bare as to be embarrassing. This holds true for > political-economic > > > > >> stuff and many factual programmes on history -we still get 'Kings > and > > > > >> Queens' and battles with little focus on how what democracy we > have > > > > >> came about - amazingly,given much focus on the rich, we get little > > > > >> idea of how wealth is acquired and distributed. Moral discussion > > > > >> rarely gets in deep and there is massive bias towards received > wisdom > > > > >> and language. Journalism is stuck in value from Victorian > America on > > > > >> 'objectivity' - frankly worlds away from what can be justified in > > > > >> critical thought. In all their 'balance' they have failed to > report on > > > > >> debt and wage decimation for 20 years. war reporting has been a > > > > >> complete sell-out since The Falklands Fiasco. In reporting the > > > > >> closure of fifty UK pubs a week, no mention was made of the fact > that > > > > >> there was no longer any money in the hands of those who used to > use > > > > >> them - in 1980 the bottom 50% had 14% of the country's liquid > assets - > > > > >> now it's less than 1% - and clearly why businesses reliant on it > have > > > > >> shut. > > > > > > >> Given that the cost of manufacturing in most products we buy is > 10-15% > > > > >> it's hard to see the business case for much 'offshoring' and > there has > > > > >> never been a case of us to decimate manufacturing other than for > the > > > > >> ideological right wanting to kill off unions and gerrymander > > > > >> electorates. > > > > > > >> The positives we need to get to include (tomorrow): > > > > >> 1.bringing back manufacturing > > > > >> 2.limited debt jubilee > > > > >> 3. return to primitive banking > > > > >> 4. new greener products - we should aim to cut all domestic energy > > > > >> needs by 70% > > > > >> 5. bring in international/national service for all across US and > > > > >> Europe to abolish youth unemployment and long-term unemployment > > > > >> 6. raise wages > > > > >> 7. cap high earnings and bring in wealth taxes that ensure > capital is > > > > >> invested > > > > >> 8.hang the next bankster who threatens the treason of selling out > to > > > > >> some tax haven > > > > >> 9. insist on transparent accounting on a global basis (I teach the > > > > >> stuff and can no longer make sense of balance sheets) > > > > >> 10. no more derivatives > > > > >> 11. start looking for massive efficiency savings in new ways that > > > > >> don't turn corporations into sociopaths. > > > > >> 12. establish world-wide quality of working life standards and > give > > > > >> the kind of support to all that leads to population control (which > > > > >> includes stopping the fear your kids are so likely to die you > need to > > > > >> have loads). > > > > >> 13. stop money controlling politics - partly by ensuring it isn't > to > > > > >> spare for this kind of influence. > > > > >> 14. encourage genuine self-reliance through more work-based > learning. > > > > >> 15. make politicians meet in public (Internet broadcast) not in > secret > > > > >> - and get on with a genuine peace that will entail getting rid of > > > > >> rougue states and medievalist clowns > > > > > > >> Whatever the list we need to decide it and not allow the brush > off > > > > >> that we can't afford it. We can. What we can't afford is for it > to > > > > >> turn into some centralised communism or be taken over by current > > > > >> centralised money. > > > > > > >> On Nov 7, 1:26 am, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > I share Pat's 'tears'. In science one can pull off the positive > > > > >> > eliminations and work with what's left. In the social this is > > > hardly > > > > >> > possible without moving into some solipsist fantasy as in > Descartes > > > or > > > > >> > Ayn Rand's "objectivism". The farce in logical positivism is > that > > > of > > > > >> > the return of desire. In attempting to extirpate system > building > > > > >> > (metaphysics) one is really building another. 7 books may have > been > > > > >> > written by Plato on how to stave off elite corruption - but of > > > course > > > > >> > he was crating an elite that would be corrupted as the > Democracy was > > > > >> > corrupted around him,nearly always at war. > > > > >> > Inmy conception we are always working with the Undead memes of > the > > > > >> > past and a way forward is to bring them to light.I at least > partly > > > > >> > think my years in study (mostly teaching and research) have led > to > > > me > > > > >> > some of the right places but one always faces the reality James > > > > >> > explains a bit above. > > > > >> > My frustration with philosophy is this - it relies on abilities > few > > > > >> > have and over time has become a pastime for these few. Almost > > > > >> > everything in academe turns to this. > > > > >> > In one of those weird turns, had the new inheritance laws for > royal > > > > >> > succession just brought in been around 200 years ago, the world > wars > > > > >> > may not have happened because the king of England would have > been > > > > >> > Germany's Kaiser. I suspect imperialism would have had its way > > > > >> > anyway, but some odd turn may lead us away from the current > abyss. > > > > >> > OccupyX is at least getting at old left-right divides. > > > > > > >> > On Nov 5, 8:59 pm, James Lynch <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > On Thu, Nov 3, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Pat < > > > [email protected]> > > > > >> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > On Oct 27, 6:43 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> > > >> The communist angle always makes me smirk Pat. The > original > > > > >> written > > > > >> > > >> form was elite (Plato) and aimed at cutting the > temptations of > > > > >> > > >> corruption,and the American anti-commie stuff always > failed to > > > > >> reflect > > > > >> > > >> on itself as dire ideology. These days we have 'loop > theories' > > > > >> that > > > > >> > > >> relish both capitalism and communism in some kind of > balance - > > > but > > > > >> in > > > > >> > > >> the end I just think we are at a past sell by date on > both. I > > > > >> worked > > > > >> > > >> for Moldovan 'wages' (mostly food and board) when I > lectured > > > there > > > > >> - > > > > >> > > >> three weeks worth more or less paid my train fare from the > > > > >> airport. I > > > > >> > > >> loved my days in the fields, mostly fixing machinery with > parts > > > > >> bought > > > > >> > > >> with my university salary. I'd be closer to Allan on the > > > state of > > > > >> > > >> play than Rigsy. We have made casual labouring much more > > > difficult > > > > >> > > >> for our own people to do. We could do something around > such > > > work, > > > > >> but > > > > >> > > >> the problem is it's so much cheaper to organise around > migrant > > > > >> labour. > > > > > > >> > > > Cheaper, yes; exploitation, equally yes. Doesn't the 'West' > > > just > > > > >> love > > > > >> > > > to exploit those who it deems of less worth and then eke > every > > > last > > > > >> > > > scrap of worth out of them? Of course, all in the name of > > > 'better'. > > > > >> > > > Sometimes, it makes me feel phyisically ill to think I, in > some > > > > >> third- > > > > >> > > > party manner, benefit from such ill use of human resources. > > > But one > > > > >> > > > man can't stop it; it takes a mindset and paradigm shift to > > > occur in > > > > >> > > > the minds of, at least, 1% of the human population--and > that's, > > > now, > > > > >> > > > roughly 70 million!! > > > > > > >> > > Waste is quite a > > > > ... > > > > read more ยป -- ( ) |_D Allan Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
