Maybe "Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird" by the poet, Wallace Stevens, is on-line- one might play with the notion of how we are observed by blackbirds/crows. Actually, crows are highly intelligent creatures and PBS devoted a program to them. Also, the trickster raven. I think man/woman can develop a conscience- though not all do- and that is what separates us from animals primarily though some traits and behaviors are similar.
On Oct 24, 11:32 am, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> wrote: > Heh you are the master of the non answer, are you a politician? > > I'm going to assume then that yes crows are conscious, and what you may > call the level of intelligence, and the intensity of the sense also mean > yes. Which makes your previous words contradictory. > > This phrase though, 'intensity of sense', makes no sense to me. What does > it mean then for consciousness for those beings who have more > intense senses? > > > > On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 17:26:41 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote: > > > There is a matter of the intensity of the senses and the level of > > intelligence , but , my friend , crows are beings and not machines - > > ah , robots. > > > On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 9:48 PM, Lee Douglas > > <[email protected]<javascript:>> > > wrote: > > > Ahhhh RP! You don't change at all sir do you. > > > > There are of course many, many people and soooo much literature that > > > disagrees with your wishy washyness here. So much of it in fact that I > > > don't even feel the need to defend my stance at all. So let me just > > finish > > > by asking you two questions. > > > > Are crows conscious? > > > > Is a crows consciousness the same as a humans? > > > > On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 17:08:51 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote: > > > >> That which exist is Being , and consciousness does't have levels but > > >> parameters -- sound , sight , etc. > > > >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 8:45 PM, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >> > The we disagree again RP. Unless you and I have differing concepts > > on > > >> > what > > >> > consciousness is? My cats are conscious, would they have an > > >> > understanding > > >> > of God as a human does? I suspect not, but they are surely conscious > > >> > creatures. It may be that I infer I am currently in discourse with > > >> > another > > >> > conscious entity, but I'd rather say it is empirically correct that I > > am > > >> > doing so rather than it is an inference that I can make. After all > > are > > >> > we > > >> > not members of the same species? Without being too general, I think > > >> > such > > >> > inferences that I can make about myself as a human must also hold > > true > > >> > for > > >> > other humans. I must breathe to live, so can I infer that others of > > my > > >> > species must also do the same, or can I claim knowledge that it is > > true? > > > >> > I get what you mean of course, I can ever only really say I think, > > >> > therefore > > >> > I am. However when an inference takes place day in and day out, I > > think > > >> > it > > >> > better to regard such 'truth' as knowledge. Thus I know you are > > >> > conscious, > > >> > as you are human, and I know I am conscious. My cats show all the > > signs > > >> > of > > >> > being conscious and indeed as you would expect of conscious beings. > > the > > >> > both exhibit different attitudes and personalities. > > > >> > So once again we are back to the following two questions. What do > > you > > >> > mean > > >> > by 'being', and at what level of 'consciousness' does this proof of > > >> > yours > > >> > need to be, to be proof? > > > >> > On Wednesday, 24 October 2012 12:20:34 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote: > > > >> >> As far as a person is concerned , there is only one consciousness , > > >> >> that is , his. Others are inferred, as also the existence of god. > > > >> >> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 2:30 AM, Lee Douglas <[email protected]> > > >> >> wrote: > > >> >> > Meh! I know plankton exist, is it conscious, or would you not call > > it > > >> >> > a > > >> >> > being? Or perhaps we can discuss levels of consciousness? Nope I > > >> >> > can't > > >> >> > get > > >> >> > with this argument RP, far too many holes in it. > > > >> >> > On Sunday, 23 September 2012 15:20:45 UTC+1, RP Singh wrote: > > > >> >> >> Conscious beings are a proof of God because otherwise an > > unconscious > > >> >> >> Being > > >> >> >> could not be said to exist. Existence is the seed which finds its > > >> >> >> growth in > > >> >> >> life. > > > >> >> > -- > > > >> > -- > > > > --- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --
