That's more or less it rigsy.  I'm vaguely aware of all kinds of
technology that might come on line to help, including an agricultural
version of robot heaven.  More intelligent and much lighter machines
would help prevent a lot of the soil compaction that ruins the land
and be much more discriminate in fertiliser and herbicide use.  Making
petrol directly from air pulls the carbon you are going to put back in
driving your car out before you pollute.  The spreadsheets are
complicated of course - the net pollution will be in the electricity
generation needed to convert the air, less rivers and seas not
polluted by oil companies.

The beat I suspect we are missing is that human organisation is out of
control.  My best mate and I nearly went to the cricket world cup in
the West Indies a while back.  He's blind - the idea was to experience
the crack, food and beer.  TV coverage is much better on the actual
game.  We're glad we didn't go as all the crack was replaced by
sponsors.  We can organise all kinds of freak shows like cricket and
the Olympics, but not much about old people being lonely or sensible
ways for people to be genuinely self-sufficient in sustainable
communities.




I have long thought so-called arguments of capitalism versus communism
are of the same form one can find between Polynesian villages on the
organisation of gang rape sessions (in some the girl is 'lucky' and in
others suffers 'punishment').  Gabby keeps a big pin to burst
totalitarian bubbles, but I suspect we suspect organisation because of
stuff like the Domesday Book, The Enclosures and excesses of
colonisation, big business and government free of genuine democratic
control.  I like a lot of what Andrew has to say - but I've also heard
similar of utter despots advocating year zero agrarianism (no
paranoids - I don't suspect Andrew of this) - and feel the shadow
passing over my own grave in respect of wanting a more controlled
society.  I first heard 'education, education, education' in East
Germany as the socialist solution.


The problem seems to be that once we can express an ideal form we
forget the irony in the word Utopia.  I suspect much of what we call
argument is really a process of forgetting and pretending.  I wonder,
for instance, what I could really ever have to say to a bunch of women
wanting to be Anglican bishops?  I suspect it wouldn't be 'you believe
in MumboJumbo so there's no point in 'talking' with you (Anglicans at
least don't insist on priestly celibacy)!  I'm assuming we are trapped
in one of those ghastly Sartre plays.  The real horror would be in
being trapped with the rationalising clowns who attribute sacred
importance to gender.  But how do we know when to throw in the 'you
are a rationalising clown joker' - after all any fool can do that?


Links between women bishop opinion from an atheist and global warming
are no doubt strange.  I don't know what the religious rationalisation
for excluding women is - but am almost certain I'd think it specious
rot.  I would entertain the argument if it was remotely important to
me or someone close.  More important to me is that religions are
allowed exemption from just UK law.  Are my views of this any
different in form than those of someone in ignorant climate change
denial?  I'll throw in another spanner.  Where does what we have of
democracy arise?  The Athenian Democracy that committed genocide and
was nearly always at war?  Or in mass action and strike sabotage of
mine workers (thesis not mine)?  Another would be the obvious lack of
consideration in argument of human history in espoused theory being
nothing like theory in action.


I'd be quite happy not to be involved in arguments about women bishops
and even happier if there were no such arguments or any bishops.  We
should include religions in our law and slap sexism suits on them.
 But where do you draw he line?  I don't fancy being part of an
atheist enforcement committee peering into people's homes to check
they aren't praying.  I have noticed there are many wack-jobs around
in climate change debate as relevant to the real issues as I could be
to the Tory Party at prayer.  I'll leave this speculative rubbish with
the thought of a female future bishop wrangling with the moral issues
of sex before marriage with an atheist.  There are times, surely, not
to get hung up on obsessive thinking and such private business should
not be anything we are interested in other than in thought experiment.
 The climate of opinion needs changing.  Argument seems remarkably
unfit for purpose on this - for the obvious reason most people can't
do much of it.

Imagine a village creating all its own energy from wind (etc), with
its own fuel plant, vertical farms, connected in a wider network of
villages with hospitals, university, schools (however we'd change
them) - this would be in a world without transnational oil companies
and potentially without transnationals generally.  I suspect the
climate change debate is not about carbon dioxide.  And that we need
to remember we get very serious about mad issues like women bishops.
I have little doubt, given the abuse male clergy have perpetrated over
the centuries, that I am prepared to save the victims by distracting a
female vicar myself!


On 22 Nov, 07:53, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
> yeah   very much so.
> Allan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 11:48 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I agree Allan - rather like our bodies in heating up to combat
> > infection!
>
> > On 21 Nov, 21:20, Allan H <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> The earth has a habit of taking care of itself.
> >> Allan
>
> >> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 7:27 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > From New Scientist this week:
>
> >> > "EMISSIONS are still way too high to stop dangerous climate change,
> >> > warns a new report from the United Nations Environment Programme
> >> > (UNEP).
>
> >> > To stop the Earth warming more than 2 °C above preindustrial levels,
> >> > global emissions must peak at 44 gigatonnes in 2020 and then fall.
> >> > However, the report says that 2020 emissions are likely to be between
> >> > 8 to 13 gigatonnes higher. This range is calculated on how well or not
> >> > countries deliver on their pledges to cut emissions. So in the best-
> >> > case scenario, where everyone meets their targets, emissions are still
> >> > 8 Gt too high.
>
> >> > This "emissions gap" has grown: first estimates by UNEP in 2010 put it
> >> > at between 5 and 9 Gt.
>
> >> > Unless drastic action is taken soon, we are likely to see a 4 °C rise
> >> > this century, warns Simon Anderson at the International Institute for
> >> > Environment and Development in Edinburgh, UK.
>
> >> > A report from the World Bank, also published this week, paints a stark
> >> > picture of a 4 °C warmer world riven by severe heatwaves, floods and
> >> > droughts. "It will be absolutely catastrophic for certain parts of the
> >> > world," Anderson says.
>
> >> > By delaying emissions cuts, the world is simply deciding to pay more
> >> > for them later, he says."
>
> >> > I remain to be convinced of the carbon dioxide argument.  Of more
> >> > concern are reports such as those on the speed with which the former
> >> > lush territory now the Sahara Desert changed - possibly only decades
> >> > and certainly only a few hundred years.  Climate change is obviously
> >> > part of earth history  The question is why we are so unprepared.
>
> >> > --
>
> >> --
> >>  (
> >>   )
> >> |_D Allan
>
> >> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> >> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
> >>  Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.
>
> > --
>
> --
>  (
>   )
> |_D Allan
>
> Life is for moral, ethical and truthful living.
>
> I am a Natural Airgunner -
>
>  Full of Hot Air & Ready To Expel It Quickly.

-- 



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