Needless  to say.

On Monday, November 3, 2014 9:18:32 PM UTC, Gabby wrote:
>
> Again your interpretation. I meant to have politely replied: What is your 
> context?
>
> 2014-11-03 20:41 GMT+01:00 archytas <[email protected]>:
>
>> Gabby makes some important points - seem to remember the 81 paper but 
>> there were many,  Dictionaries don't really help here - nor the 
>> hermeneutics of 'finding the original copy' - German sin is exemplified in 
>> the Jewish Numbers 31 and so on across genocides and the concentration camp 
>> as a business tactic in such as 'red rubber'.  Primitive societies tell us 
>> their wars are based on revenge - though they always involve resource grabs 
>> (land, hunting, women, children).  We seem to have merely managerialised 
>> this.
>>
>> The demand for social services and welfare is much greater than we admit, 
>> extending into such issues as why we have been so stupid to expand the 
>> human population in tripling it in my lifetime, global warming, pollution 
>> and the crass failures of "education".  One might think one could at least 
>> focus on 'the abuse next door' - but I have to say when this came along in 
>> my life Sue and I failed and found the agencies and politicians much worse 
>> than useless.  The ultimate standard of morality would have been to shoot 
>> the parents and do the time - had one been able to rely on the agencies 
>> looking after the kids rather than doing a worse job.
>>
>> The resource issues are not insurmountable though they are within our 
>> stupid economic system.  Even to talk of this is more or less heresy - and 
>> look what we prefer to do - speak of young kids preferring a 'prostitute 
>> lifestyle' and hear politicians talking about the few cases in which abused 
>> children hit the care jackpot.  The ages of consent across the West were 
>> often created in response to child prostitution.  The first law of 
>> innocents I know of comes from Dark Age Scotland and I am by no means sure 
>> what the improvements since have been.
>>
>> The specific social services resource issue was discussed in the 1950's 
>> in terms of concentric circles - one could only focus on a small number of 
>> the worst cases in a much wider circle of need.  Only 10% of kids killed by 
>> parents in the UK are actually known to social services in the sense of 
>> being subject to a care order.  The costs of admitting a problem soon 
>> spiral and following the money one soon realises little actually gets spent 
>> on the kids.  Gabby raises the issue that it is cruel to promise solution 
>> when we have no intent of funding what's needed.  In terms of sufficient 
>> numbers of people to do most of what is needed there is no problem - we 
>> just create a system which prevents money-resourcing.
>>
>> We have, of course, pumped trillions into subsidy of manufacturing and 
>> banks over the years - these areas supposedly thrusting self-reliant genius 
>> competitors - and very little into what we call welfare - we 'police' 
>> Afghanistan and Iraq making things much worse but do almost nothing for our 
>> own victims.  There are answers.
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 2, 2014 8:46:36 PM UTC, Molly wrote:
>>>
>>> I befriended one of the LaCasa employees that worked with children in 
>>> groups and took disclosures.  She eventually became a police officer, 
>>> hoping it would be less stressful. I think it probably was.If the network 
>>> is large enough, no one burns out.  Trouble is, it is rarely large enough.  
>>> I think people have the need to look away from this problem more than any 
>>> other.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, November 2, 2014 2:59:57 PM UTC-5, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Ah, pedophiles they have been in the news including one for soliciting 
>>>> an underage computer image. Personally I am glad to see the aggressive 
>>>> prosecution, I am very proud of the enforcement effort. 
>>>> I wish I could say it would an honor to be part of the team thing on 
>>>> pedophile but truth is I think it would destroy me. I do give them my full 
>>>> support,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Molly <[email protected]>
>>>> To: [email protected]
>>>> Sent: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 8:26 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Who can we tell?
>>>>
>>>> *It is important to agree on terms when conversing.  This from the Free 
>>>> Dictionary:*
>>>> *em·power·ment** n.*
>>>> *Usage Note: *Although it is a contemporary buzzword, the word 
>>>> *empower* is not new, having arisen in the mid-17th century with the
>>>> legalistic meaning "to invest with authority, authorize." Shortly 
>>>> thereafter it began to be used with an infinitive in a more general way
>>>> meaning "to enable or permit." Both of these uses survive today but 
>>>> have been overpowered by the word's use in politics and poppsychology. 
>>>> Its modern use originated in the civil rights movement, which sought 
>>>> political *empowerment* for its followers. The wordwas then taken up by
>>>>  the women's movement, and its appeal has not flagged. Since people of 
>>>> all political persuasions have a need fora word that makes their 
>>>> constituents feel that they are or are about to become more in control 
>>>> of their destinies, *empower* has been adopted by conservatives as well
>>>>  as social reformers. It has even migrated out of the political arena 
>>>> into other fields. · The UsagePanel has some misgivings about this 
>>>> recent broadening of usage. For the Panelists, the acceptability of the
>>>>  verb *empower* depends on the context. Eighty percent approve of the 
>>>> example *We want to empower ordinary citizens.* But in contexts that 
>>>> are not political the Panel is markedly less enthusiastic. The sentence
>>>>  
>>>> *Hunger and greed and then sexual zeal are felt by some to be stages of 
>>>> experiencethat empower the individual*
>>>>  garners approval from only 33 percent of the Panelists. The Panel may 
>>>> frown on this kind of psychological empowering because it resonates of 
>>>> the self-help movement, which is notorious for trendy coinages.
>>>>
>>>> I've never been interested in talking politics, and although I've had 
>>>> occasion to work with some, never really affiliated with any party. I will 
>>>> leave any tendency to interpret what I say as an affiliation with a 
>>>> political party up to you.  I really don't have one. I will be excited to 
>>>> see Dave Bing next week when he comes to my place of employment. for a 
>>>> photo shoot, the Democrat who restored integrity to the office of Mayor of 
>>>> Detroit. He took a lot of heat and it took guts to devout the years of his 
>>>> life that he did to turning the city around like a freighter on the river. 
>>>> Like skin color, religion or citizenship, I don't don't hold many 
>>>> preconceived notions to a persons political persuasion when relating to 
>>>> them, so really can't speak to your comment about republicans and 
>>>> democrats.
>>>>
>>>> Nice to know pedophiles are prosecuted somewhere.  Congratulations! A 
>>>> system working!
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, November 2, 2014 1:28:13 PM UTC-5, Gabby wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> The big picture, that you draw, is very much a U.S. American 
>>>>> Republican's view. I know quite a number of people whose aggressivenes 
>>>>> gets 
>>>>> triggerd by this deliberate choice of imagery. (I'm sure the relief 
>>>>> barking 
>>>>> will set in later) 
>>>>> Let's see if we can find a common ground for the word "empowerment". 
>>>>> The root is English, that's correct, but the modern popularity and usage 
>>>>> goes back to the American Julian Rappaport: In praise of paradox. A 
>>>>> social 
>>>>> policy of empowerment over prevention, in: American Journal of Community 
>>>>> Psychology, 9/1981, 1-25 (13), saying: „Having rights but no resources 
>>>>> and 
>>>>> no services available is a cruel joke.“ I think we can all agree if we 
>>>>> don't take a closer look at our rights, but assume we have them. 
>>>>> As for moving, if you cannot protect innocent children - this would 
>>>>> still be a taboo in our German context, even if we wanted to do the same. 
>>>>> We have left innocent Jews to the apparatus, we have no excuse left. It 
>>>>> is 
>>>>> the alledged pedophiles who have to be protected in our communities, or 
>>>>> they have to move elsewhere, no laws and law enforcement could do 
>>>>> something 
>>>>> about that. 
>>>>> But you know what, I believe your call for a kid's survival training 
>>>>> is more of an anti-Democrat, Republican demagogy than a real call! :) Am 
>>>>> I 
>>>>> right? 
>>>>>
>>>>  -- 
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