Learning and enjoyment are the secret to a fulfilled life. Learning without enjoyment wears you down, enjoyment without learning dulls you. Love is not a feeling but rather a conscious state. The art of not being an egoist. Why we would so like to be good and what's stopping us. All good prechtice (Gabby might get this one). Foucault had it that the silence turns to a belly-laugh.
So think of doing some good - say in toilet provision in the third world, food banks in the North of England. What stops you? Lack of inner peace and inability to let silence arise directly from the geodesic self? Or stupid economics? Molly can sound like 'lying back and learning to love the Bomb' - though she is entirely unlike this. Unresolved inner peace issues no doubt! And thank goodness. Inner peace for me would be a bit like stopping the Earth's core - she's defo right on that one. On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:06:31 PM UTC, archytas wrote: > > I used to get drunk too Al. I like Orn on the silence - especially as he > admitted to carrying a gun! I wonder if ant queens, who do nothing except > shell out thousands of eggs, enjoy the silence and regard the restless > drones bringing in the food as inferior? The inner peace of people at the > freetable provided by slaves ain't for me, or even altruistic ants > rebelling against slavers (where does the self of this lie as they are > dying for their species survival chances)? > > On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:41:38 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> Actually it is quite enjoyable. You can listen to silence and still hear >> the world around you. The idea is to turn you mind off and think of >> nothing. >> Only experienced it one time that I know of. It was fantastic once I >> realized what occurred. >> >> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: archytas <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 1:32 PM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: the law of our own growth >> >> Handy if one is deaf Allan. >> >> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:29:05 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>> >>> I think a person need to learn to listen to silence. (Note I did not say >>> meditate ) >>> >>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Tue, 09 Dec 2014 1:20 PM >>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: the law of our own growth >>> >>> Our louts are equally despicable no doubt. Here in the North of England >>> we would be half as well off again as a state of Federal Germany and had >>> avoided Thatcher - >>> http://www.oecd.org/els/soc/dividedwestandwhyinequalitykeepsrising.htm >>> - that's well off in the ability to buy trivia (increasingly including >>> food) and burn the planet. >>> >>> Contradictions to the unitary self (however geodesic) include the ways >>> dogs and cats wrap us round their little fingers and 'culture' producing us >>> in 100s of varieties of religion. Where the English Defene League out in >>> force in Berlin's last anti-Islam march? >>> >>> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 11:21:10 AM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>> >>>> Hahaha, no need to move anywhere. We have learned to appreciate the >>>> simple beauty of Anglo-American it's-either-you-or-me to gain votes and >>>> growing power in our Alternative für Deutschland (AfD). The Bavarian >>>> (Oktoberfest, you know) CSU now tried to gain popularity back by demanding >>>> foreigners to speak German at home. Ain't that amusing? >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:02:56 PM UTC+1, archytas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Agora 42 is quite good. Molly's question is raised there: >>>>> 'Margot Käßmann asks the question: "How can you get rid of the working >>>>> pressure, the pressure to, constantly meet the expectations of others? >>>>> How >>>>> can one stay true to yourself? "In any case we need to see more sense for >>>>> the common good . Also should conflicts, especially in politics, not >>>>> avoided, but dealt with openly. What is missing is an attitude, as >>>>> reflected in Martin Luther's saying "Here I stand, I can not help it!"' >>>>> - >>>>> that's my excuse anyway. >>>>> >>>>> Precht has used detective novels. Britain is a chronic backwater in >>>>> comparison with this sense of adventure. The Anglo-American 'self. self, >>>>> self, me.me .me' is remarkably unitary. Soon I will need exile in >>>>> Germany to escape UKIP oppression. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 10:36:03 AM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Our present day Rilke is Richard David Precht, Molly. He is >>>>>> experienceable on multiple channels. Here is one of his bestsellers: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Who-Am-If-How-Many/dp/0385531184/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418117358&sr=8-1&keywords=richard+david+precht+-+who+am+i+and+if+so+how+many >>>>>> >>>>>> “Insight” is a key identifier for you. - You see, Molly, I connect to >>>>>> “Minds Eye” through/via/by/on the visual as well as on the oral options >>>>>> of >>>>>> interpretation, on the singular as well as on the plural options of >>>>>> interpretation, depending on the human condition of me-myself-I acting >>>>>> in a >>>>>> time-space frame not fully controllable. You know, we hear on the basis >>>>>> of >>>>>> time, with time being the true indicator of why you are what you are in >>>>>> physical space. Headstand versus tree cruxing. Insight or outside, that >>>>>> is >>>>>> the question brought to a point. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 1:45:27 AM UTC+1, Molly wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You have such a wonderful way of obscuring a questions with a >>>>>>> million details, while all true, all roadblocks to clarity, throwing up >>>>>>> problem after problem instead of looking directly at self. What is >>>>>>> true, is >>>>>>> that everything you examine, Nei,l is a clear and true aspect of self, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> like a geodesic form, cannot get to the center because it has multiple >>>>>>> points. The form is important, and each point of the form. But the >>>>>>> question >>>>>>> points to a reduction to oneness and you can't seem to get there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All of our assessments of others are judgments. My image of you is >>>>>>> different than Gabby's and different than Allan's although we all love >>>>>>> you. >>>>>>> Why do we measure our own self image by our image of others (formed on >>>>>>> judgment)? Why can't we form our own self image on our relationship >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> self instead of our relationship with other? I suspect not all of us >>>>>>> are >>>>>>> even aware of the definition or dimension of that relationship with >>>>>>> self. I >>>>>>> also suspect this is the crux of Rilke's insight. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, December 8, 2014 4:55:15 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are sunk costs in the old bildung ways and it could be there >>>>>>>> are no laws of growth as there are no laws in history (Popper's >>>>>>>> account). >>>>>>>> Poetry circles are as unlikely to cure domestic violence as the world >>>>>>>> at >>>>>>>> war. The ideas have to be alive somehow though. So what do YOU >>>>>>>> really >>>>>>>> think Molly - I don't have you as a poetic guru on past evidence. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, December 8, 2014 6:33:09 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Much has been said and little done on how they come to make the >>>>>>>>>> soul governable and produce the docile body. Are we listening to >>>>>>>>>> depth or >>>>>>>>>> autism in Rilke? Perhaps just Leibniz with flowers, the monads and >>>>>>>>>> incommensurability reconstituted? His mother lost a daughter and >>>>>>>>>> used to >>>>>>>>>> dress him as a girl. The clash between social and self evaluation >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> clearly like nature-nurture and not a case of taking sides. Try to >>>>>>>>>> track >>>>>>>>>> the origins as outside in and inside out and you are unlikely to be >>>>>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>>> stop. The best societies produce the best individuals and the best >>>>>>>>>> individuals the best societies. Science is based on demonstration >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> others - yet which others, given most people can't learn the >>>>>>>>>> language-games >>>>>>>>>> needed to know what most such demonstrations are about. Replete >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> phlogiston theory one can rationalise for infinite time breathing on >>>>>>>>>> very >>>>>>>>>> ignorant oxygen. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Important to find out how we come to think how others work Molly. >>>>>>>>> I tend to look and smell people wearing make-up and perfume as whale >>>>>>>>> killers and beagle torturers, but am yet to have any impact on the >>>>>>>>> cosmetics industry. The self is probably hidden far more 'securely' >>>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>>> the face under pancake crust. Most women are far more interested in a >>>>>>>>> projected self that 'interests' and satisfies the demands and opinion >>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> people other than me. In a way one can hardly use shampoo without >>>>>>>>> hearing >>>>>>>>> the animal screams. Just how much good honest looking is there >>>>>>>>> anywhere - >>>>>>>>> and rather than being at the heart of the matter, is Rilkeism already >>>>>>>>> caught up in 'existing advertising' that makes thinking-pretending >>>>>>>>> poetry >>>>>>>>> has depth that makes the right impression on others in games of >>>>>>>>> presenting >>>>>>>>> the self in everyday life? Make up for the New Ager? Wittgenstein >>>>>>>>> was apt >>>>>>>>> to mention language like climbing a ladder in the clouds - such an >>>>>>>>> apparatus would fall from the sky while we were looking for roots and >>>>>>>>> origin. Though, on the science side, I can only predict terminal >>>>>>>>> velocity >>>>>>>>> in such situations >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No wheelchairs in our newsrooms seems an important issue on >>>>>>>>> presentation of self - then one sees there is no news in them either! >>>>>>>>> Rilke and John Wayne dodged respective drafts. Take a good look at >>>>>>>>> ourselves and what would we find? Perhaps that there is no decent >>>>>>>>> society >>>>>>>>> to return to, that one can live in true to decency ... tough one old >>>>>>>>> friend. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Monday, December 8, 2014 12:25:42 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Sometimes I think we can only see ourselves in how we stack up >>>>>>>>>> against our judgment of others, an outside in perspective, and >>>>>>>>>> maybe, at >>>>>>>>>> the heart of what Rilke mentions here. I wonder if the fear of >>>>>>>>>> taking a >>>>>>>>>> good honest look at oneself is a typically western cultural >>>>>>>>>> construct, or >>>>>>>>>> simply a human journey roadblock. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 7, 2014 10:12:29 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The New Agers were all over Rilke and my Persian poet like a >>>>>>>>>>> rash in the past - though the latter may have written in Greek >>>>>>>>>>> patois. >>>>>>>>>>> Tgat egat sig probably appeared in his text, meaning the sound >>>>>>>>>>> made after >>>>>>>>>>> watching German opera. René Karl Wilhelm Johann Josef Maria Rilke - >>>>>>>>>>> Rumi >>>>>>>>>>> had a long name too and was into the simultaneous destruction and >>>>>>>>>>> recreation of the soul. >>>>>>>>>>> A bit of poetry is good for people who can't do science. At >>>>>>>>>>> least Rumi might offer Whirling Dervishes rather than interminable >>>>>>>>>>> opera >>>>>>>>>>> about heroes buried in acorns for us to recover from poetry >>>>>>>>>>> reading. I >>>>>>>>>>> like a lot of Sufi ideas. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I actually have a lot in common with RP's 'conservatism'. "Love >>>>>>>>>>> consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet >>>>>>>>>>> each >>>>>>>>>>> other" (Rilke from Brainyquote). These days safe sex has lost the >>>>>>>>>>> gentle >>>>>>>>>>> touch of romance and loyalty (maybe autism) and become disease >>>>>>>>>>> prevention. >>>>>>>>>>> Yet are we to look down on the promiscuous? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 7, 2014 8:31:52 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Fortunately for us a pendulum swing eventually reverses >>>>>>>>>>>> direction. I think it is everones responsibility to change >>>>>>>>>>>> responsibly. Our >>>>>>>>>>>> souls owe that to humanity. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I know Gabby does not like my sig shit in view of her eye >>>>>>>>>>>> candy.. tgat is tough shit as it us doing exactly egat I intended >>>>>>>>>>>> it to do >>>>>>>>>>>> .. it is my simple attempt to change away from the pendulum swing >>>>>>>>>>>> toward >>>>>>>>>>>> violence toward others. The best way of leadership lies in ones >>>>>>>>>>>> actions. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>> From: RP Singh <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> To: Minds Eye <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sun, 07 Dec 2014 8:48 PM >>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: the law of our own growth >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Oppression of women is decidedly wrong , but for a married >>>>>>>>>>>> person to fall in love with another is not character. You fall in >>>>>>>>>>>> love with >>>>>>>>>>>> a girl and marry her then you fall in love with another woman , >>>>>>>>>>>> divorce >>>>>>>>>>>> your wife and marry again or just have an extra-marital affair is >>>>>>>>>>>> decidedly >>>>>>>>>>>> wrong. Even if your wife is ordinary in body and mind you still >>>>>>>>>>>> owe her >>>>>>>>>>>> loyalty and respect. There is no dearth of beautiful people , >>>>>>>>>>>> but to love and respect your own partner even of ordinary >>>>>>>>>>>> countenance is character. To be faithful to your society is >>>>>>>>>>>> character and >>>>>>>>>>>> if there are shortcomings in your society you should try to remove >>>>>>>>>>>> them and >>>>>>>>>>>> that is what has been done by great people in all societies. Even >>>>>>>>>>>> ordinary >>>>>>>>>>>> people can try to remove the abuses in their society according to >>>>>>>>>>>> their >>>>>>>>>>>> capabilities , and to convert to other religions is escaping the >>>>>>>>>>>> duty of >>>>>>>>>>>> bettering your society. You owe your family and society a duty to >>>>>>>>>>>> work for >>>>>>>>>>>> its betterment and to convert is escaping from that duty. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 11:55 PM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Once the realization is accepted that even between the closest >>>>>>>>>>>>> human beings infinite distances continue, a wonderful living side >>>>>>>>>>>>> by side >>>>>>>>>>>>> can grow, if they succeed in loving the distance between them >>>>>>>>>>>>> which makes >>>>>>>>>>>>> it possible for each to see the other whole against the sky. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Fancy >>>>>>>>>>>>> something a little different then Tony? Shall we 'admire' men >>>>>>>>>>>>> who want >>>>>>>>>>>>> women to live in black bags? Flowers rarely ask tough questions >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Rilke >>>>>>>>>>>>> was one. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 7, 2014 4:27:22 PM UTC, facilitator wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Healthy growth also requires a time or doing nothing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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