I am not sure that we need to rely so much on our historical autobiography as current noetic make-up. In as much as everything we have ever experienced leads us to this moment, maybe, but it is recognition in this moment that lends our view. I also see no need to exclude other from self, as it is through relatedness comes understanding of both in an inclusive, not exclusive model.
On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: > > As humans, we are intrigued by who we are and how we differ from other > creatures of evolution. Among the capacities thought to be uniquely human > are autonoetic consciousness, > the aspect of self-awareness that allows us to imagine our own experiences > in different places at other times, and theory of mind (ToM), which allows > us to infer other people’s current > mental states. The idea that ToM is closely related to, and that it may > depend on, episodic memory and autonoetic consciousness seems perfectly > natural: that in order to imagine and make sense of other people’s > thoughts, feelings, intentions, and actions, we must rely on our > autobiographical recollections. The ability to consciously recollect past > personal happenings has been shown to be necessary for imagining coherent > and detailed personal happenings in the future. Both episodic memory and > ToM emerge close in time in ontogenetic development. The neural substrate > on which the two abilities rely is in many ways strikingly similar. > > This might just accord with Molly's notions of self-development - that one > needs to get self right before making sense of or enjoying the world and > understanding others and how we might choose to live. Idealism can turn in > on itself, with the world seen as cynical and frustrating the ideals - > mysticism looking like thousands of years of flowery failure by people with > time to think it up in personal situations of exploitation of sweat off > others' backs. The grim Mike Leigh film 'Naked' makes such points. > > One might say that actually living and working alongside others is better > than making it all up mystically from self could be a better start than > introspection amongst other chattering class types. In respect of the > first paragraph above, I found a dire shortage of people who did have > accurate autobiography to work from. My own is particularly suspect. > > > On Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:33:27 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >> >> Amsterdam politicians have been apt to talk of levelling the red lights >> and replacing them with a red carpet to the museums and theatre. I liked >> the piano barge. In another form of mysticism one can see what lies >> beneath. Der Wallen is a place to see trafficking and exploitation, then >> throw up. I did a coffee shop instead - walking red light districts is >> like unpaid overtime to me. Took the technicolour yawner on a tram to see >> some flower fields. Beauty is fine until you think of it as 'not ugly', >> thus making ugliness and disability some kind of sin. >> >> Personally, I love mindful mindlessness as the basis of being able to do >> nothing. Tried it on this laptop the other day before effecting a cure >> with the soldering iron. Mysticism can be good, but also mystification. >> Angels and devils again. >> >> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:27:49 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>> >>> The museums of Amsterdam are great, somethings are good with much that >>> is os question. I do not like wandering around their either. You are right >>> it is in the eye if the beholder. Greatfully it is out of bicycling range >>> Leiden is 10 km one way Den Haag (Den Hague) 10 km a different direction >>> the difference between the two is Lieden is a city where as Den Haag is i >>> oversize town and does not qualify as a city by dutch law. >>> Everything is a matter of perspective. >>> >>> ~~ >>> لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين >>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 23:03 >>> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Mysticism >>> >>> A guy I didn't like walked through Amsterdam's red light district with >>> me years ago. He threw up over the nearest canal bridge. I rather liked >>> his mystic summary of the place. Reality, one suspects, is not in the eye >>> of the beholder. >>> >>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 9:10:24 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>> >>>> To quote >>>> >>>> "mysticism is the art of union with Reality." >>>> >>>> >>>> "The old story of Eyes and No-Eyes is really the story of the mystical >>>> and unmystical types. "No-Eyes" has fixed his attention on the fact that >>>> he >>>> is obliged to take a walk. For him the chief factor of existence is his >>>> own >>>> movement along the road; a movement which he intends to accomplish as >>>> efficiently and comfortably as he can. He asks not to know what may >>>> be on either side of the hedges. He ignores the caress of the wind >>>> until it threatens to remove his hat. He trudges along, steadily, >>>> diligently; avoiding the muddy pools, but oblivious of the light which >>>> they reflect. >>>> "Eyes" takes the walk too: and for him it is a perpetual revelation of >>>> beauty and wonder. The sunlight inebriates him, the winds delight him, the >>>> very effort of the journey is a joy. Magic presences throng the roadside, >>>> or cry salutations to him >>>> from the hidden fields. The rich world through which he moves lies in >>>> the fore-ground of his consciousness; and it gives up new secrets to him >>>> at >>>> every step. "No-Eyes," when told of his adventures adventures, usually >>>> refuses to believe that both have gone by the same road. He fancies that >>>> his companion has been floating about in the air, or beset by agreeable >>>> hallucinations. We shall never >>>> persuade him to the contrary unless we persuade him to look for >>>> himself." >>>> >>>> ~~ >>>> لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين >>>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
