For consciousness a sense is necessary and that can be called an elementary sort of brain.
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 5:50 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > There are organising processes long before brains in evolution RP - these > might be conscious. I'm 90% sure brains produce mind and the process is > mechanistic and copyable. Hard to say at the moment how close scientists > are to substrate independent mind and uploading human mind to such. One > can imagine a society in which life builds itself - I suspect reflecting > back from this much we regard as human would look very mechanistic rather > than mystic. Imagine a society with no childbirth - what would gender be, > sex, family, economics, politics and other prize elements of libidinal > literature? > > > On Monday, December 22, 2014 2:44:44 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> Consciousness is in the brain , which is an integral part of the body. >> When we are brain- dead there is no consciousness. AS for the universal >> Consciousness there is no such thing , rather there is the universal >> unconsciousness , a state from which everything evolves >> >> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 11:38 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> "In the field of consciousness research—and also in physics and >>> astronomy—we are breaking past the cause-and-effect, mechanistic way of >>> interpreting things. In the biological sciences, there is a vitalism coming >>> in that goes much further toward positing a common universal consciousness >>> of which our brain is simply an organ. Consciousness does not come from the >>> brain. The brain is an organ of consciousness. It focuses consciousness and >>> pulls it in and directs it through a time and space field. But the >>> antecedent of that is the universal consciousness of which we are all just >>> a part." >>> >>> Joseph Campbell in Mythic World's, Modern Words, p. 286 >>> >>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:46:21 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>> >>>> I should say that my relationship with Hautes Etudes Commericiales was >>>> not good. The place was founded by Napoleon. Key learning on the short >>>> course is: >>>> >>>> Who is the individual >>>> How to engage? >>>> How to resist? >>>> How to rearrange? >>>> Why management matters >>>> >>>> One wonders how our smartest need to be taught this as adults, often 24 >>>> plus at HEC, and how schools produce us in the mystical state of not >>>> knowing our arses from our elbows. >>>> >>>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 5:33:19 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Agreed Molly - I can only critique your model out of respect for it >>>>> not demanding gullible followership. This film - a rather juvenile one - >>>>> inspired by Chris Hedge's 'Death of the Liberal Class' does hint at some >>>>> of >>>>> the structural problems - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH6UynI5m7Y >>>>> - it is Facilitaresque in some ways. Tony might inject more humour in the >>>>> bleakness and maybe more striking images. >>>>> >>>>> There remains the issue of mass forgetting and propaganda in the >>>>> current moment. The CEO of Apple has found it easy enough to come out as >>>>> gay, but seems to have no conception of his oppression of others in the >>>>> black heart pursuit of profit. How has he come to that point? How is the >>>>> dirty-hands claque applauding current vile CEO behaviour created and what >>>>> role does this play in scrutiny of the moment? Does the construction of >>>>> the moment bear any relation of the construction of other moments? Does >>>>> self matter at all if it is so malleable by 'outside structuration' - as >>>>> often seems the case, say, in the prevention and destruction of worker >>>>> solidarity by sensitivity-trained CEOs. Hitler granted German unions a >>>>> May >>>>> Day holiday and parade, then closed them down forever the day after. The >>>>> 'great self' working by beggaring all neighbours to weakness is surely not >>>>> our quest. >>>>> >>>>> https://www.coursera.org/course/orgology = We are in constant >>>>> relationship with many organizations. Our world is submitted to regular >>>>> changes as organizations evolve, come and go. Understanding your >>>>> memberships and attachments to organizations will help you act on your >>>>> world. You'll learn how to evaluate the influence of organizations around >>>>> you and how to transform your relationships to reach a stronger coherence. >>>>> >>>>> I know I would feel better in a course Molly was organising - but this >>>>> is partly because I would not be the same person in such a group as the >>>>> one >>>>> with an itchy trigger finger in respect of politicians and the overseers >>>>> of >>>>> Chinese labour making i-Phones. >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:10:54 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure that we need to rely so much on our historical >>>>>> autobiography as current noetic make-up. In as much as everything we have >>>>>> ever experienced leads us to this moment, maybe, but it is recognition in >>>>>> this moment that lends our view. I also see no need to exclude other from >>>>>> self, as it is through relatedness comes understanding of both in an >>>>>> inclusive, not exclusive model. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As humans, we are intrigued by who we are and how we differ from >>>>>>> other creatures of evolution. Among the capacities thought to be >>>>>>> uniquely >>>>>>> human are autonoetic consciousness, >>>>>>> the aspect of self-awareness that allows us to imagine our own >>>>>>> experiences in different places at other times, and theory of mind >>>>>>> (ToM), >>>>>>> which allows us to infer other people’s current >>>>>>> mental states. The idea that ToM is closely related to, and that it >>>>>>> may depend on, episodic memory and autonoetic consciousness seems >>>>>>> perfectly >>>>>>> natural: that in order to imagine and make sense of other people’s >>>>>>> thoughts, feelings, intentions, and actions, we must rely on our >>>>>>> autobiographical recollections. The ability to consciously recollect >>>>>>> past >>>>>>> personal happenings has been shown to be necessary for imagining >>>>>>> coherent >>>>>>> and detailed personal happenings in the future. Both episodic memory and >>>>>>> ToM emerge close in time in ontogenetic development. The neural >>>>>>> substrate >>>>>>> on which the two abilities rely is in many ways strikingly similar. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This might just accord with Molly's notions of self-development - >>>>>>> that one needs to get self right before making sense of or enjoying the >>>>>>> world and understanding others and how we might choose to live. >>>>>>> Idealism >>>>>>> can turn in on itself, with the world seen as cynical and frustrating >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> ideals - mysticism looking like thousands of years of flowery failure by >>>>>>> people with time to think it up in personal situations of exploitation >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> sweat off others' backs. The grim Mike Leigh film 'Naked' makes such >>>>>>> points. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One might say that actually living and working alongside others is >>>>>>> better than making it all up mystically from self could be a better >>>>>>> start >>>>>>> than introspection amongst other chattering class types. In respect of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> first paragraph above, I found a dire shortage of people who did have >>>>>>> accurate autobiography to work from. My own is particularly suspect. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:33:27 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Amsterdam politicians have been apt to talk of levelling the red >>>>>>>> lights and replacing them with a red carpet to the museums and >>>>>>>> theatre. I >>>>>>>> liked the piano barge. In another form of mysticism one can see what >>>>>>>> lies >>>>>>>> beneath. Der Wallen is a place to see trafficking and exploitation, >>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>> throw up. I did a coffee shop instead - walking red light districts is >>>>>>>> like unpaid overtime to me. Took the technicolour yawner on a tram to >>>>>>>> see >>>>>>>> some flower fields. Beauty is fine until you think of it as 'not >>>>>>>> ugly', >>>>>>>> thus making ugliness and disability some kind of sin. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Personally, I love mindful mindlessness as the basis of being able >>>>>>>> to do nothing. Tried it on this laptop the other day before effecting >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> cure with the soldering iron. Mysticism can be good, but also >>>>>>>> mystification. Angels and devils again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:27:49 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The museums of Amsterdam are great, somethings are good with much >>>>>>>>> that is os question. I do not like wandering around their either. You >>>>>>>>> are >>>>>>>>> right it is in the eye if the beholder. Greatfully it is out of >>>>>>>>> bicycling >>>>>>>>> range Leiden is 10 km one way Den Haag (Den Hague) 10 km a different >>>>>>>>> direction the difference between the two is Lieden is a city where as >>>>>>>>> Den >>>>>>>>> Haag is i oversize town and does not qualify as a city by dutch law. >>>>>>>>> Everything is a matter of perspective. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ~~ >>>>>>>>> لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين >>>>>>>>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 23:03 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Mysticism >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> A guy I didn't like walked through Amsterdam's red light district >>>>>>>>> with me years ago. He threw up over the nearest canal bridge. I >>>>>>>>> rather >>>>>>>>> liked his mystic summary of the place. Reality, one suspects, is not >>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>> the eye of the beholder. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 9:10:24 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> To quote >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "mysticism is the art of union with Reality." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> "The old story of Eyes and No-Eyes is really the story of the >>>>>>>>>> mystical and unmystical types. "No-Eyes" has fixed his attention on >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> fact that he is obliged to take a walk. For him the chief factor of >>>>>>>>>> existence is his own movement along the road; a movement which he >>>>>>>>>> intends >>>>>>>>>> to accomplish as efficiently and comfortably as he can. He asks not >>>>>>>>>> to know >>>>>>>>>> what may >>>>>>>>>> be on either side of the hedges. He ignores the caress of the >>>>>>>>>> wind until it threatens to remove his hat. He trudges along, >>>>>>>>>> steadily, >>>>>>>>>> diligently; avoiding the muddy pools, but oblivious of the light >>>>>>>>>> which they reflect. >>>>>>>>>> "Eyes" takes the walk too: and for him it is a perpetual >>>>>>>>>> revelation of beauty and wonder. The sunlight inebriates him, the >>>>>>>>>> winds >>>>>>>>>> delight him, the very effort of the journey is a joy. Magic presences >>>>>>>>>> throng the roadside, or cry salutations to him >>>>>>>>>> from the hidden fields. The rich world through which he moves >>>>>>>>>> lies in the fore-ground of his consciousness; and it gives up new >>>>>>>>>> secrets >>>>>>>>>> to him at every step. "No-Eyes," when told of his adventures >>>>>>>>>> adventures, >>>>>>>>>> usually refuses to believe that both have gone by the same road. He >>>>>>>>>> fancies >>>>>>>>>> that his companion has been floating about in the air, or beset by >>>>>>>>>> agreeable hallucinations. We shall never >>>>>>>>>> persuade him to the contrary unless we persuade him to look for >>>>>>>>>> himself." >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ~~ >>>>>>>>>> لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين >>>>>>>>>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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