Consciousness is associated with "Identity" ,if you transfer the conscious-centred organ the identity would remain the same. In coma there is a limited consciousness too elementary to be remembered or recognized.
On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 8:51 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > We can ask whether this brain creates or receives RP. I'm on the brain > mechanism end of consciousness, but everything can be seen as an address in > space-time and in relation to the rest of the 'map'. There's an attempt at > this here: > https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~ejchaisson/reprints/rise_of_info.pdf > > Consciousness can be removed by a non-fatal blow to the head as well as > death - though it may return in the former. One wonders, in conservation > law terms, what it changes to, where it goes ... the hard drive comes back > when you switch it on again and address it unless fried. If we could > transfer brains like hearts and livers ... or mind to non-brain substrate > and discover 'Fred' was still 'Fred' - would we consider consciousness > different then? > > > On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 1:56:20 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >> >> For consciousness a sense is necessary and that can be called an >> elementary sort of brain. >> >> On Tue, Dec 23, 2014 at 5:50 AM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> There are organising processes long before brains in evolution RP - >>> these might be conscious. I'm 90% sure brains produce mind and the process >>> is mechanistic and copyable. Hard to say at the moment how close >>> scientists are to substrate independent mind and uploading human mind to >>> such. One can imagine a society in which life builds itself - I suspect >>> reflecting back from this much we regard as human would look very >>> mechanistic rather than mystic. Imagine a society with no childbirth - >>> what would gender be, sex, family, economics, politics and other prize >>> elements of libidinal literature? >>> >>> >>> On Monday, December 22, 2014 2:44:44 AM UTC, RP Singh wrote: >>>> >>>> Consciousness is in the brain , which is an integral part of the body. >>>> When we are brain- dead there is no consciousness. AS for the universal >>>> Consciousness there is no such thing , rather there is the universal >>>> unconsciousness , a state from which everything evolves >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 21, 2014 at 11:38 PM, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> "In the field of consciousness research—and also in physics and >>>>> astronomy—we are breaking past the cause-and-effect, mechanistic way of >>>>> interpreting things. In the biological sciences, there is a vitalism >>>>> coming >>>>> in that goes much further toward positing a common universal consciousness >>>>> of which our brain is simply an organ. Consciousness does not come from >>>>> the >>>>> brain. The brain is an organ of consciousness. It focuses consciousness >>>>> and >>>>> pulls it in and directs it through a time and space field. But the >>>>> antecedent of that is the universal consciousness of which we are all just >>>>> a part." >>>>> >>>>> Joseph Campbell in Mythic World's, Modern Words, p. 286 >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:46:21 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I should say that my relationship with Hautes Etudes Commericiales >>>>>> was not good. The place was founded by Napoleon. Key learning on the >>>>>> short course is: >>>>>> >>>>>> Who is the individual >>>>>> How to engage? >>>>>> How to resist? >>>>>> How to rearrange? >>>>>> Why management matters >>>>>> >>>>>> One wonders how our smartest need to be taught this as adults, often >>>>>> 24 plus at HEC, and how schools produce us in the mystical state of not >>>>>> knowing our arses from our elbows. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 5:33:19 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Agreed Molly - I can only critique your model out of respect for it >>>>>>> not demanding gullible followership. This film - a rather juvenile one >>>>>>> - >>>>>>> inspired by Chris Hedge's 'Death of the Liberal Class' does hint at >>>>>>> some of >>>>>>> the structural problems - https://www.youtube.com/watc >>>>>>> h?v=hH6UynI5m7Y - it is Facilitaresque in some ways. Tony might >>>>>>> inject more humour in the bleakness and maybe more striking images. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There remains the issue of mass forgetting and propaganda in the >>>>>>> current moment. The CEO of Apple has found it easy enough to come out >>>>>>> as >>>>>>> gay, but seems to have no conception of his oppression of others in the >>>>>>> black heart pursuit of profit. How has he come to that point? How is >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> dirty-hands claque applauding current vile CEO behaviour created and >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> role does this play in scrutiny of the moment? Does the construction of >>>>>>> the moment bear any relation of the construction of other moments? Does >>>>>>> self matter at all if it is so malleable by 'outside structuration' - as >>>>>>> often seems the case, say, in the prevention and destruction of worker >>>>>>> solidarity by sensitivity-trained CEOs. Hitler granted German unions a >>>>>>> May >>>>>>> Day holiday and parade, then closed them down forever the day after. >>>>>>> The >>>>>>> 'great self' working by beggaring all neighbours to weakness is surely >>>>>>> not >>>>>>> our quest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.coursera.org/course/orgology = We are in constant >>>>>>> relationship with many organizations. Our world is submitted to regular >>>>>>> changes as organizations evolve, come and go. Understanding your >>>>>>> memberships and attachments to organizations will help you act on your >>>>>>> world. You'll learn how to evaluate the influence of organizations >>>>>>> around >>>>>>> you and how to transform your relationships to reach a stronger >>>>>>> coherence. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I know I would feel better in a course Molly was organising - but >>>>>>> this is partly because I would not be the same person in such a group as >>>>>>> the one with an itchy trigger finger in respect of politicians and the >>>>>>> overseers of Chinese labour making i-Phones. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 4:10:54 PM UTC, Molly wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am not sure that we need to rely so much on our historical >>>>>>>> autobiography as current noetic make-up. In as much as everything we >>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>> ever experienced leads us to this moment, maybe, but it is recognition >>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>> this moment that lends our view. I also see no need to exclude other >>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>> self, as it is through relatedness comes understanding of both in an >>>>>>>> inclusive, not exclusive model. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:31:23 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As humans, we are intrigued by who we are and how we differ from >>>>>>>>> other creatures of evolution. Among the capacities thought to be >>>>>>>>> uniquely >>>>>>>>> human are autonoetic consciousness, >>>>>>>>> the aspect of self-awareness that allows us to imagine our own >>>>>>>>> experiences in different places at other times, and theory of mind >>>>>>>>> (ToM), >>>>>>>>> which allows us to infer other people’s current >>>>>>>>> mental states. The idea that ToM is closely related to, and that >>>>>>>>> it may depend on, episodic memory and autonoetic consciousness seems >>>>>>>>> perfectly natural: that in order to imagine and make sense of other >>>>>>>>> people’s thoughts, feelings, intentions, and actions, we must rely on >>>>>>>>> our >>>>>>>>> autobiographical recollections. The ability to consciously recollect >>>>>>>>> past >>>>>>>>> personal happenings has been shown to be necessary for imagining >>>>>>>>> coherent >>>>>>>>> and detailed personal happenings in the future. Both episodic memory >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> ToM emerge close in time in ontogenetic development. The neural >>>>>>>>> substrate >>>>>>>>> on which the two abilities rely is in many ways strikingly similar. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This might just accord with Molly's notions of self-development - >>>>>>>>> that one needs to get self right before making sense of or enjoying >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> world and understanding others and how we might choose to live. >>>>>>>>> Idealism >>>>>>>>> can turn in on itself, with the world seen as cynical and frustrating >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> ideals - mysticism looking like thousands of years of flowery failure >>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>> people with time to think it up in personal situations of >>>>>>>>> exploitation of >>>>>>>>> sweat off others' backs. The grim Mike Leigh film 'Naked' makes such >>>>>>>>> points. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One might say that actually living and working alongside others is >>>>>>>>> better than making it all up mystically from self could be a better >>>>>>>>> start >>>>>>>>> than introspection amongst other chattering class types. In respect >>>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>>> first paragraph above, I found a dire shortage of people who did have >>>>>>>>> accurate autobiography to work from. My own is particularly suspect. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, December 21, 2014 12:33:27 AM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Amsterdam politicians have been apt to talk of levelling the red >>>>>>>>>> lights and replacing them with a red carpet to the museums and >>>>>>>>>> theatre. I >>>>>>>>>> liked the piano barge. In another form of mysticism one can see >>>>>>>>>> what lies >>>>>>>>>> beneath. Der Wallen is a place to see trafficking and exploitation, >>>>>>>>>> then >>>>>>>>>> throw up. I did a coffee shop instead - walking red light districts >>>>>>>>>> is >>>>>>>>>> like unpaid overtime to me. Took the technicolour yawner on a tram >>>>>>>>>> to see >>>>>>>>>> some flower fields. Beauty is fine until you think of it as 'not >>>>>>>>>> ugly', >>>>>>>>>> thus making ugliness and disability some kind of sin. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Personally, I love mindful mindlessness as the basis of being >>>>>>>>>> able to do nothing. Tried it on this laptop the other day before >>>>>>>>>> effecting >>>>>>>>>> a cure with the soldering iron. Mysticism can be good, but also >>>>>>>>>> mystification. Angels and devils again. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:27:49 PM UTC, Allan Heretic >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The museums of Amsterdam are great, somethings are good with >>>>>>>>>>> much that is os question. I do not like wandering around their >>>>>>>>>>> either. You >>>>>>>>>>> are right it is in the eye if the beholder. Greatfully it is out of >>>>>>>>>>> bicycling range Leiden is 10 km one way Den Haag (Den Hague) 10 km a >>>>>>>>>>> different direction the difference between the two is Lieden is a >>>>>>>>>>> city >>>>>>>>>>> where as Den Haag is i oversize town and does not qualify as a city >>>>>>>>>>> by >>>>>>>>>>> dutch law. >>>>>>>>>>> Everything is a matter of perspective. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ~~ >>>>>>>>>>> لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين >>>>>>>>>>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 23:03 >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Mysticism >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> A guy I didn't like walked through Amsterdam's red light >>>>>>>>>>> district with me years ago. He threw up over the nearest canal >>>>>>>>>>> bridge. I >>>>>>>>>>> rather liked his mystic summary of the place. Reality, one >>>>>>>>>>> suspects, is >>>>>>>>>>> not in the eye of the beholder. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, December 20, 2014 9:10:24 PM UTC, Allan Heretic >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> To quote >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "mysticism is the art of union with Reality." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> "The old story of Eyes and No-Eyes is really the story of the >>>>>>>>>>>> mystical and unmystical types. "No-Eyes" has fixed his attention >>>>>>>>>>>> on the >>>>>>>>>>>> fact that he is obliged to take a walk. For him the chief factor of >>>>>>>>>>>> existence is his own movement along the road; a movement which he >>>>>>>>>>>> intends >>>>>>>>>>>> to accomplish as efficiently and comfortably as he can. He asks >>>>>>>>>>>> not to know >>>>>>>>>>>> what may >>>>>>>>>>>> be on either side of the hedges. He ignores the caress of the >>>>>>>>>>>> wind until it threatens to remove his hat. He trudges along, >>>>>>>>>>>> steadily, >>>>>>>>>>>> diligently; avoiding the muddy pools, but oblivious of the >>>>>>>>>>>> light which they reflect. >>>>>>>>>>>> "Eyes" takes the walk too: and for him it is a perpetual >>>>>>>>>>>> revelation of beauty and wonder. The sunlight inebriates him, the >>>>>>>>>>>> winds >>>>>>>>>>>> delight him, the very effort of the journey is a joy. Magic >>>>>>>>>>>> presences >>>>>>>>>>>> throng the roadside, or cry salutations to him >>>>>>>>>>>> from the hidden fields. The rich world through which he moves >>>>>>>>>>>> lies in the fore-ground of his consciousness; and it gives up new >>>>>>>>>>>> secrets >>>>>>>>>>>> to him at every step. "No-Eyes," when told of his adventures >>>>>>>>>>>> adventures, >>>>>>>>>>>> usually refuses to believe that both have gone by the same road. >>>>>>>>>>>> He fancies >>>>>>>>>>>> that his companion has been floating about in the air, or beset by >>>>>>>>>>>> agreeable hallucinations. We shall never >>>>>>>>>>>> persuade him to the contrary unless we persuade him to look for >>>>>>>>>>>> himself." >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ~~ >>>>>>>>>>>> لا القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد أو إيذاء الآخرين >>>>>>>>>>>> Do not murder, rape, enslave or harm others >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>>>>>>> it, send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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