You are so much better when your hands are warm Allan. Why not knit
another pair of mittens and send them to Gabbs? She obviously lost hers on
a night out with the kittens, trying to find the non-existent Sperrbezirke
on a cold night in Berlin. Delusions can have practical necessity.
On Sunday, February 8, 2015 at 1:38:35 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>
> Very good points all of them RP has excellent insight. Perhaps another
> aspect needs to be examined.
> My profession required me to create the illusion that I was a bad guy. The
> legal system required me to maintain legal integrity.
> The people who thought I was a bad guy, you got it they were very
> delisional. Definitely my fault as I was very effective at my employment.
> (",)
>
> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: archytas <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Sun, 08 Feb 2015 1:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions
>
> Actually Allan, what RP said is part of the definition of delusion. And
> elsewhere, he is apt to insist on responsibility.
>
> The DSM defines:
> Delusion. A false belief based on incorrect inference about external
> reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes
> and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence
> to the contrary. The belief is not one ordinarily accepted by other members
> of the person's culture or subculture (e.g., it is not an article of
> religious faith). When a false belief involves a value judgment, it is
> regarded as a delusion only when the judgment is so extreme as to defy
> credibility.
>
> DSM definitions are notoriously inadequate:
> 1. Couldn't a true belief be a delusion, as long as the believer had no
> good reason for holding the belief? 2. Do delusions really have to be
> beliefs — might they not instead be imaginings that are mistaken for
> beliefs by the imaginer? 3. Must all delusions be based on inference? 4.
> Aren't there delusions that are not about external reality? ‘I have no
> bodily organs’ or ‘my thoughts are not mine but are inserted into my mind
> by others’ are beliefs expressed by some people with schizophrenia, yet are
> not about external reality; aren't these nevertheless still delusional
> beliefs? 5. Couldn't a belief held by all members of one's community still
> be delusional? (Coltheart 2007, p. 1043) (2007). “Cognitive
> neuropsychiatry and delusional belief” (The 33rd Sir Frederick Bartlett
> Lecture), The Quarterly Journal of Experimental Psychology, 60 (8):
> 1041–1062.
>
> Tony got in much quicker with his statement that delusions might be a
> good, motivational thing.
>
> I ask myself whether I would want to be the kind of person who thinks,
> say, RP, Molly or Gabby's religious beliefs are delusional. I would not
> want to be such a person, and actually don't evaluate others much anyway.
> Nor would I want to be so non-evaluatory as to not take an axe of a poor
> soul thinking he had two heads and attacking the real one with it. I do
> think religion is mostly wrong and has delusional content.
>
>
> On Sunday, 8 February 2015 05:26:44 UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>
>> What an excuse .. To avoid responsibility.
>>
>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: archytas <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Sent: Sun, 08 Feb 2015 1:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions
>>
>> That could be a true delusion in your case Allan. In your permanently
>> deluded state you know everything about delusion, but are deluded into
>> thinking you don't. My recommendations as the therapist you think is your
>> second head are:
>> 1. drop the axe and the gun
>> 2. look in the mirror and ask that guy you see as someone else to fix the
>> injuries if you didn't do 1.
>> 3, get the coffee ready as I'm deluded too and coming round to discuss
>> whether knowing our delusory incompetence puts us on a better footing in
>> recovery than the rest of the group, who are deluded into thinking
>> themselves sane and above this discussion ...
>>
>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 10:41:24 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote:
>>>
>>> Delusions is something I have little understanding of..
>>>
>>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين
>>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres
>>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: archytas <[email protected]>
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Sent: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 11:18 PM
>>> Subject: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions
>>>
>>> I agree Tony - it's a point missing from the literature. Joan of Arc,
>>> if she was ever real. Whatever delusion systems are, there are positive
>>> and negative sides. In some models delusion is the correct adaptation to
>>> circumstances. Stimulus is difficult to work out though - hit me with a
>>> brick and I might start to produce great sculptures - same for you might
>>> stop you.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015 at 9:00:19 PM UTC, facilitator wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Wouldn't a foundation of delusion be part of the brains ability to
>>>> calculate, predict, surmise and therefore be necessary? Competitiveness
>>>> would drive this as well. Knowing the odds against oneself and under some
>>>> form of delusion, proceeding. A team that has no chance of winning, a
>>>> political campaign, a war? Delusions are maintained because people have
>>>> hope beyond reason. It is a driving factor.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
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