My Chrissy - from hero not to superhero but to eternal savior!!! :) Hugs and kisses :)
2015-02-12 15:50 GMT+01:00 Chris Jenkins <[email protected]>: > Have one on me, Gabs. Yeah, someone being the moderator of a group of 5 > doesn't wield much influence. No surprise it's not really taken seriously > anymore, although if you're talking historically, I was gone for most of > that (and will be gone for most of future history). > > I've missed all of Arch's historical empowerment moments though...mostly > it sounds like what we call "abuelo chochando"...Grampa is telling stories > in the kitchen after a meal, nodding off over a drink, but never spilling a > drop. > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 4:55 AM, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Let's see if we can resist Facil's wicked formatting trial and continue >> this thread, boys! >> >> We have it that Neil, the only serious content producer here, does not >> take Molly power serious. He can be sure of the boys' support when in need >> of powerful historical empowerment moments. Great! And explains why he does >> not change it to his personal writing blog. He has not forgotten the power >> of tradition! As for the dubious and two-faced communication style here, >> when Molly has a history of personal data mining here the purpose of Neil's >> writing spin becomes all too obvious too. >> >> Sad, sad story! Boys, pass me another drink, please... >> >> Am Donnerstag, 12. Februar 2015 schrieb : >> >> Always was a dream to retire to sailing.. Now I am retired. I can no >>> longer sail glad I did it earlier.. >>> >>> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >>> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >>> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> >>> To: Minds-Eye <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Thu, 12 Feb 2015 12:42 AM >>> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions >>> >>> I'm enjoying a Boddie's now; it's no Younger's 2, but it's got a nice >>> creamy head. I can't find enough of the bitters here though; IPA's are the >>> frat boy craft beer of choice. >>> >>> My good mates live on a 42' single mast now; the children are gone, and >>> land held no attraction. I've still got another eight years or so before >>> that becomes a possibility. >>> >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 6:34 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Just right for a transportation sentence then. Used to sail. My >>>> balance is crap now. Flying a desk just ain't it. When I was more >>>> actively engaged, some of the best parts involved solitude. I miss that. >>>> Loneliness is not the same thing. Bolton pubs have an air of desperation >>>> now, so I don't bother. The ale is usually cack too. That old fuggy muggy >>>> behind the sanctity of the pub door has faded to disinfectant and stale >>>> food smells. And I used to smoke when drinking. Not the same without. >>>> Plus 'young punk' violence is much worse now. >>>> >>>> I still get out to sea a couple of times a year on a mate's fishing >>>> smack. His quota days have just increased from 4 to 5 days a month. >>>> There's no living in it any more. Due out with him at the end of the month >>>> and will probably resume normal beer service then. Theakston's Old >>>> Peculiar and another black beer, Younger's No 2 are a treat when properly >>>> creamy. You'd still be sucking the stuff in from that facial appendage the >>>> following day. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 11:02:09 PM UTC, Chris Jenkins wrote: >>>>> >>>>> My pony tail and beard are built for the sea, but I skipper a desk >>>>> chair, more to my chagrin. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 5:52 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Who are you calling an old pirate, Blackbeard? And what kind of >>>>>> nancy-boy pubs where they let woman in other than to be barmaids 'ave ye >>>>>> been drinkin' in? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 10:28:39 PM UTC, Chris Jenkins >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Only to an old pirate. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 5:26 PM, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone else noticed that a colon and a right parenthesis look >>>>>>>> like a symbol for a cut-throat razor? :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wednesday, 11 February 2015 22:19:52 UTC, Chris Jenkins wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> No justifications, dear Gabs. Just a correction. :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 4:58 PM, gabbydott <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Oh yes, What, who, whose questions are being ommitted is quite >>>>>>>>>> telling. There is a geometry in that too, of course. I explicitly >>>>>>>>>> said no >>>>>>>>>> blaming, and you come up with justifications?! For what? Yes, we >>>>>>>>>> were close >>>>>>>>>> to my wish come true, but then Facil appeared and it all started >>>>>>>>>> again. >>>>>>>>>> There is nothing I can do about it from where I sit. ;) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Am Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2015 schrieb Chris Jenkins : >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Oh, how quickly time muddles the recollection...perhaps you >>>>>>>>>>> should go back and review some of those posts before I left. It was >>>>>>>>>>> for the >>>>>>>>>>> same reason Craig did, and had nothing to do with the legacy nature >>>>>>>>>>> of an >>>>>>>>>>> email list. I was overloaded between job and family, and simply >>>>>>>>>>> couldn't >>>>>>>>>>> keep up with the volume of communication (a strike against your >>>>>>>>>>> assertion I >>>>>>>>>>> left because I knew it was an outdated format). There were hundreds >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> posts, some of them quite combative (*ahem*), and any action taken >>>>>>>>>>> by mods >>>>>>>>>>> to keep the list adhering to its original intent was met with a >>>>>>>>>>> hearty >>>>>>>>>>> round of "fuck you matey". It was draining. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> My goodbye: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/minds-ey >>>>>>>>>>> e/by$20chris/minds-eye/ZQB5vLJ2rSI/0GbRK-9nz-AJ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Note that I put it to the group to decide, specifically because >>>>>>>>>>> there was no other way to effectively determine any sort of self >>>>>>>>>>> governance, and I didn't feel I had the right to make an arbitrary >>>>>>>>>>> decision >>>>>>>>>>> without input. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You promptly attacked every facet of my decision (and I expected >>>>>>>>>>> no less). There was a long and robust conversation with a ton of >>>>>>>>>>> familiar >>>>>>>>>>> faces (most missing now). Your first vote was for a natural death. >>>>>>>>>>> Have you >>>>>>>>>>> gotten your wish? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 12:37 PM, gabbydott <[email protected] >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Over a thousand members, 5 actually post? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This question coming from you? YOU! Oh come on, Chrissy baby! >>>>>>>>>>>> This is an outdated format here that doesn't generate much traffic >>>>>>>>>>>> anymore. >>>>>>>>>>>> You know that, that`s your job to know that, that`s why you quit >>>>>>>>>>>> the mod >>>>>>>>>>>> job here! No one is blaming you for that but don´t play the >>>>>>>>>>>> innocent here! >>>>>>>>>>>> You introduced no transparent polling as to who should become your >>>>>>>>>>>> successor, but lay down your crown to the one who threw his hat in >>>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>>> ring, a method acceptable for the queen also. Nice try, dear. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 2015-02-11 17:34 GMT+01:00 Chris Jenkins < >>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, he passed the bar some time ago, which is a big part of >>>>>>>>>>>>> why he no longer had time for these conversations. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> He's not alone in that, apparently. Over a thousand members, 5 >>>>>>>>>>>>> actually post? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:32 AM, archytas <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Such charm as ever Gabby. The term paedophile is not well >>>>>>>>>>>>>> taken here and may really insult Allan and make him sad. Molly >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was gone, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the sense of 'gone fishin'. Craig was becoming a lawyer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hope he made >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. He was a Mormon too. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would have been nice to hear updates on Bacon. There were >>>>>>>>>>>>>> eleven Idols. I expect your superior model incorporates them, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> or perhaps >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spits spleen. We can only be sure of never seeing it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We model defeasibly now and use a lot of geometry because a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot of us think in shape. The idea is to make natural language >>>>>>>>>>>>>> usable by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the machine. It has even more difficulty making sense of just >>>>>>>>>>>>>> what humans >>>>>>>>>>>>>> say than a pair of paranoid-schizoid positionists. We do >>>>>>>>>>>>>> consider 'shapes' >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like the molygon as underliers in our logic and they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instructive. A >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gabbygon is on the horizon - some no doubt thinking this is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> best >>>>>>>>>>>>>> place. The general theory is called 'bag of words' - we look >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for shapes in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> text to give context meaning and identify root metaphors. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>>>>>>> know how the SNERT stands out like a sore thumb? Maybe accusing >>>>>>>>>>>>>> old men >>>>>>>>>>>>>> and their dogs kind of thing? We are trying to find much more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> routine >>>>>>>>>>>>>> issues in word use to get at some of Tony has described as >>>>>>>>>>>>>> dishonesty from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'bag of words' samples taken from the 'marketplace' and other >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Idol >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations. What the machine establishes from metadata - >>>>>>>>>>>>>> considering we >>>>>>>>>>>>>> often haven't - is fascinating because we are not sure what it i >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing at >>>>>>>>>>>>>> all. We have it working on the self-justification of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> psychopaths at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gravity obviously collapses on seeing a photograph of me. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the memory. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 3:13:50 PM UTC, Gabby >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This here is my real lesson. You have been bringing up and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pushing this idol model so many times that I have forgotten >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what the one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was that I found better. All that I remember is that it was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> either located >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the alchemy or in the metaphysical poetry context. It was a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfect four >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is all that is left. It has been overwritten by your four idols. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2015-02-11 1:35 GMT+01:00 archytas <[email protected]>: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time under four headings which he called idols. He >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distinguished them as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idols of the Tribe, idols of the e, idols of the Marketplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and idols of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Theatre. An idol is an image, in this case held in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mind, which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> receives veneration but is without substance in itself. Bacon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regard idols as symbols, but rather as fixations. They expand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bit like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Tribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The example of desiring to see more order in the universe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than is actually there is one of his examples of an idol of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the tribe. He >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks that we all suffer from that one. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2. Cave >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An example of an idol of the cave (one of Bacon's examples) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that some minds are more drawn to new things and new ideas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to what has been around for a long time, while other minds are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more drawn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to "tradition" and "old school" ideas and ways than they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to newness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bacon thinks we should become aware what our own tendency is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that we can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make corrections for it. He hopes that by becoming aware of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our own mind's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tendencies toward loving novelty or tradition that we might be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "correct" for them and then hopefully see things more clearly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and truly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3. Marketplace >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We often use words very loosely in common discourse. Bacon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sees nothing wrong with that when we are just speaking >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ordinary language >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with friends and family. But, when it comes to trying to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> describe the world >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accurately and precisely, we should be aware of our tendency >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to use words >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> loosely and should try to correct for it. When we are trying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to speak >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precisely we should probably not say things like "The mountain >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is out >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> today" (anyone outside of the Puget Sound area wouldn't have a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clue what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this means); or "The sun went under a cloud" (the sun did not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> go anywhere, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let along underneath something); or "The sun came up this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> morning" (the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> earth actually just rotated). None of those sentences is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> precisely true, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and if we use language imprecisely like this it can sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accidentally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lead to huge misapprehensions about the world. Bacon thinks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this misuse of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words and language causes far more problems than we realize. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4. Theatre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can think of someone you know who has recently >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bought into a whole new religion or philosophy or psychology, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably see how they have suddenly come to interpret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universe according to their new world view. That world view >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has become the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new lens through which they perceive and interpret everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world. What Bacon says, though, is that we all do this. We all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interpret >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the world through the lens of our own little world view. It's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just easier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to see other people doing it than it is to see ourselves doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. Bacon >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinks we should become aware of how these world views shape >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and distort >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> our own perceptions of the world so that we might be able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> correct for it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a bit. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is old work. My questions are about how we recognise >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the 'second head' as a delusion yet move hardly at all on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obvious political >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delusions like economics, votes counting, social care, public >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorance and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the making invisible of many social issues. For me, deep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions on self >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are involved. The internet self is unlikely to be, as Tony >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> says, the same >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as the 'real'one - but then we have know for much longer than >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the internet >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people don't say the same things in different contexts. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact the man or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> woman in the bar often looks totally different the morning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after, let alone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what the politician says in a speech compared with when she is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with her >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backroom boys in the spin room. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:17:04 PM UTC, archytas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> At least with my knowledge of delusions I can imagine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certain people growing a second head overnight and shooting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the wrong >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spare. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:11:09 PM UTC, archytas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That seems to run to form Gabby. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:06:43 PM UTC, Gabby >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Facil picked up your question and gave his answer, I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> agreed and then came Allan barking at Facil and I told >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Allan to watch his >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tongue or leave to his own thread. Only then did you enter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the group >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> timeline to start your big daddy has come home show. Now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell me what my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deceitful intent was ... Or better, tell me tomorrow, I'm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off for today. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Am Dienstag, 10. Februar 2015 schrieb archytas : >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The only people I meet like that tend to be online >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> students Tony. We use Skype video conferencing for a few >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sessions, so have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually seen each other. I'm quieter than people >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imagine, though none >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have yet said 'uglier'. I'm very prone to catch whatever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bugs go around >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> university environments too, so rather like electronic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distance. With >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> colleagues, the situation is we know a lot more about each >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other than most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in online encounters. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My version has 'confusion' written through it. I say >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, Gabby takes it another way, or knows what I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended and chooses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another slant for whatever reason. Online, I assume she >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a sense of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> humour and a good turn with words. Deception is not part >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of this in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first place. Just guesses with less risk than so called >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality. I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> suppose the classic online deceiver is the groomer - where >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the intent is to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> set up and image and then meet the victim. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM UTC, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> facilitator wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-5, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The delusion that we are what we project is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interesting Tony. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "We claim to be what we project". Your version allows >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for reality mine allows for dishonesty. I think most >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people want to project >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a filtered image of themselves enough so that if we ever >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meet people who >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we've only conversed with online we become slightly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> astonished how >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different they appear and act in "real life". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a topic in the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit 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