Delusions are easy to come by. In my life time I have Experienced the Reality of God and the effect of one drop of water.
No Tony I will not explain or expand. تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: Molly <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions recognizing and examining our self delusions requires that we look within us for answers, something most of us are not hardwired for as most are extroverts. Most cultures do not support introspection and offer mandates for action and group acceptance. Understanding our own delusions means understanding our inner workings and we seem trained from the beginning to turn away from such shenanigans. Understanding how our communication patterns are used to force our will or view on others, how our agendas are more important than relationships, how trust in the world, ourselves, life (or lack of) effects us can all clear up delusion but I rarely see anyone having a breakthrough like this. Instead, I see everyone grinding away on the same old tracks. For me, chaos and struggle around me sometimes builds to such a head that I find myself needing to let go of any expectation or even vision of what is to come next, take a deep breath, and continue. It has been a long time since I entered the dark night of the soul, but find it eventually comes if I don't do this as needed. In my life there is a harmony that I feel more or less strongly depending on the day or sometimes the moment. If I can find my way back to this simple harmony, my experience in the world is peaceful. I get weary of struggle, angst, anger, opposition although have learned not to avoid any of it either. Delusion can come from a lack of information or understanding, or incorrect info and understanding. So what is the "correct" standard? The best answer for me has always come internally. I've stopped expecting order in experience, but have notice a coherence in its elements that mean more than cultural or group or historic norms or patterns. I define it in poetic terms and describe it as simple harmony. You may call it delusion. For me it is quite clear. On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:35:54 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: > > Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his time under four > headings which he called idols. He distinguished them as idols of the > Tribe, idols of the e, idols of the Marketplace and idols of the Theatre. > An idol is an image, in this case held in the mind, which receives > veneration but is without substance in itself. Bacon did not regard idols > as symbols, but rather as fixations. They expand a bit like this: > > 1. Tribe > > The example of desiring to see more order in the universe than is actually > there is one of his examples of an idol of the tribe. He thinks that we all > suffer from that one. > > 2. Cave > > An example of an idol of the cave (one of Bacon's examples) is that some > minds are more drawn to new things and new ideas than they are to what has > been around for a long time, while other minds are more drawn to > "tradition" and "old school" ideas and ways than they are to newness. Bacon > thinks we should become aware what our own tendency is so that we can make > corrections for it. He hopes that by becoming aware of our own mind's > tendencies toward loving novelty or tradition that we might be able to > "correct" for them and then hopefully see things more clearly and truly. > > 3. Marketplace > > We often use words very loosely in common discourse. Bacon sees nothing > wrong with that when we are just speaking ordinary language with friends > and family. But, when it comes to trying to describe the world accurately > and precisely, we should be aware of our tendency to use words loosely and > should try to correct for it. When we are trying to speak precisely we > should probably not say things like "The mountain is out today" (anyone > outside of the Puget Sound area wouldn't have a clue what this means); or > "The sun went under a cloud" (the sun did not go anywhere, let along > underneath something); or "The sun came up this morning" (the earth > actually just rotated). None of those sentences is precisely true, and if > we use language imprecisely like this it can sometimes accidentally lead to > huge misapprehensions about the world. Bacon thinks this misuse of words > and language causes far more problems than we realize. > > 4. Theatre > > If you can think of someone you know who has recently bought into a whole > new religion or philosophy or psychology, you can probably see how they > have suddenly come to interpret everything in the universe according to > their new world view. That world view has become the new lens through which > they perceive and interpret everything in their world. What Bacon says, > though, is that we all do this. We all interpret the world through the lens > of our own little world view. It's just easier to see other people doing it > than it is to see ourselves doing it. Bacon thinks we should become aware > of how these world views shape and distort our own perceptions of the world > so that we might be able to correct for it a bit. > > This is old work. My questions are about how we recognise the 'second > head' as a delusion yet move hardly at all on obvious political delusions > like economics, votes counting, social care, public ignorance and the > making invisible of many social issues. For me, deep questions on self are > involved. The internet self is unlikely to be, as Tony says, the same as > the 'real'one - but then we have know for much longer than the internet > people don't say the same things in different contexts. In fact the man or > woman in the bar often looks totally different the morning after, let alone > what the politician says in a speech compared with when she is with her > backroom boys in the spin room. > > . > > On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:17:04 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >> >> At least with my knowledge of delusions I can imagine certain people >> growing a second head overnight and shooting the wrong spare. >> >> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:11:09 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>> >>> That seems to run to form Gabby. >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:06:43 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>> >>>> Facil picked up your question and gave his answer, I agreed and then >>>> came Allan barking at Facil and I told Allan to watch his tongue or leave >>>> to his own thread. Only then did you enter the group timeline to start >>>> your >>>> big daddy has come home show. Now tell me what my deceitful intent was ... >>>> Or better, tell me tomorrow, I'm off for today. >>>> >>>> Am Dienstag, 10. Februar 2015 schrieb archytas : >>>> >>>>> The only people I meet like that tend to be online students Tony. We >>>>> use Skype video conferencing for a few sessions, so have actually seen >>>>> each >>>>> other. I'm quieter than people imagine, though none have yet said >>>>> 'uglier'. I'm very prone to catch whatever bugs go around university >>>>> environments too, so rather like electronic distance. With colleagues, >>>>> the >>>>> situation is we know a lot more about each other than most in online >>>>> encounters. >>>>> >>>>> My version has 'confusion' written through it. I say something, Gabby >>>>> takes it another way, or knows what I intended and chooses another slant >>>>> for whatever reason. Online, I assume she has a sense of humour and a >>>>> good >>>>> turn with words. Deception is not part of this in the first place. Just >>>>> guesses with less risk than so called reality. I suppose the classic >>>>> online deceiver is the groomer - where the intent is to set up and image >>>>> and then meet the victim. >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM UTC, facilitator wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The delusion that we are what we project is interesting Tony. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> "We claim to be what we project". Your version allows for reality >>>>>> mine allows for dishonesty. I think most people want to project a >>>>>> filtered >>>>>> image of themselves enough so that if we ever meet people who we've only >>>>>> conversed with online we become slightly astonished how different they >>>>>> appear and act in "real life". >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >>>>> Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>> [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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