Nothing more than a point of reference. Life is far beyond delusion yet it would seem there is nothing but delusion. People can discuss it all they want. I am not adding more or going to explain my views on reality.
تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others -----Original Message----- From: archytas <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 2:11 PM Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions So why say this in a discussion group Allan? Why should the rest of us expand anything? On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 12:59:24 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Delusions are easy to come by. In my life time I have Experienced the > Reality of God and the effect of one drop of water. > > No Tony I will not explain or expand. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: Molly <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions > > recognizing and examining our self delusions requires that we look within > us for answers, something most of us are not hardwired for as most are > extroverts. Most cultures do not support introspection and offer mandates > for action and group acceptance. Understanding our own delusions means > understanding our inner workings and we seem trained from the beginning to > turn away from such shenanigans. Understanding how our communication > patterns are used to force our will or view on others, how our agendas are > more important than relationships, how trust in the world, ourselves, life > (or lack of) effects us can all clear up delusion but I rarely see anyone > having a breakthrough like this. Instead, I see everyone grinding away on > the same old tracks. > > For me, chaos and struggle around me sometimes builds to such a head that > I find myself needing to let go of any expectation or even vision of what > is to come next, take a deep breath, and continue. It has been a long time > since I entered the dark night of the soul, but find it eventually comes if > I don't do this as needed. In my life there is a harmony that I feel more > or less strongly depending on the day or sometimes the moment. If I can > find my way back to this simple harmony, my experience in the world is > peaceful. I get weary of struggle, angst, anger, opposition although have > learned not to avoid any of it either. Delusion can come from a lack of > information or understanding, or incorrect info and understanding. So what > is the "correct" standard? The best answer for me has always come > internally. I've stopped expecting order in experience, but have notice a > coherence in its elements that mean more than cultural or group or historic > norms or patterns. I define it in poetic terms and describe it as simple > harmony. You may call it delusion. For me it is quite clear. > > On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:35:54 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >> >> Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his time under >> four headings which he called idols. He distinguished them as idols of the >> Tribe, idols of the e, idols of the Marketplace and idols of the Theatre. >> An idol is an image, in this case held in the mind, which receives >> veneration but is without substance in itself. Bacon did not regard idols >> as symbols, but rather as fixations. They expand a bit like this: >> >> 1. Tribe >> >> The example of desiring to see more order in the universe than is >> actually there is one of his examples of an idol of the tribe. He thinks >> that we all suffer from that one. >> >> 2. Cave >> >> An example of an idol of the cave (one of Bacon's examples) is that some >> minds are more drawn to new things and new ideas than they are to what has >> been around for a long time, while other minds are more drawn to >> "tradition" and "old school" ideas and ways than they are to newness. Bacon >> thinks we should become aware what our own tendency is so that we can make >> corrections for it. He hopes that by becoming aware of our own mind's >> tendencies toward loving novelty or tradition that we might be able to >> "correct" for them and then hopefully see things more clearly and truly. >> >> 3. Marketplace >> >> We often use words very loosely in common discourse. Bacon sees nothing >> wrong with that when we are just speaking ordinary language with friends >> and family. But, when it comes to trying to describe the world accurately >> and precisely, we should be aware of our tendency to use words loosely and >> should try to correct for it. When we are trying to speak precisely we >> should probably not say things like "The mountain is out today" (anyone >> outside of the Puget Sound area wouldn't have a clue what this means); or >> "The sun went under a cloud" (the sun did not go anywhere, let along >> underneath something); or "The sun came up this morning" (the earth >> actually just rotated). None of those sentences is precisely true, and if >> we use language imprecisely like this it can sometimes accidentally lead to >> huge misapprehensions about the world. Bacon thinks this misuse of words >> and language causes far more problems than we realize. >> >> 4. Theatre >> >> If you can think of someone you know who has recently bought into a whole >> new religion or philosophy or psychology, you can probably see how they >> have suddenly come to interpret everything in the universe according to >> their new world view. That world view has become the new lens through which >> they perceive and interpret everything in their world. What Bacon says, >> though, is that we all do this. We all interpret the world through the lens >> of our own little world view. It's just easier to see other people doing it >> than it is to see ourselves doing it. Bacon thinks we should become aware >> of how these world views shape and distort our own perceptions of the world >> so that we might be able to correct for it a bit. >> >> This is old work. My questions are about how we recognise the 'second >> head' as a delusion yet move hardly at all on obvious political delusions >> like economics, votes counting, social care, public ignorance and the >> making invisible of many social issues. For me, deep questions on self are >> involved. The internet self is unlikely to be, as Tony says, the same as >> the 'real'one - but then we have know for much longer than the internet >> people don't say the same things in different contexts. In fact the man or >> woman in the bar often looks totally different the morning after, let alone >> what the politician says in a speech compared with when she is with her >> backroom boys in the spin room. >> >> . >> >> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:17:04 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>> >>> At least with my knowledge of delusions I can imagine certain people >>> growing a second head overnight and shooting the wrong spare. >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:11:09 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>> >>>> That seems to run to form Gabby. >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:06:43 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Facil picked up your question and gave his answer, I agreed and then >>>>> came Allan barking at Facil and I told Allan to watch his tongue or leave >>>>> to his own thread. Only then did you enter the group timeline to start >>>>> your >>>>> big daddy has come home show. Now tell me what my deceitful intent was >>>>> ... >>>>> Or better, tell me tomorrow, I'm off for today. >>>>> >>>>> Am Dienstag, 10. Februar 2015 schrieb archytas : >>>>> >>>>>> The only people I meet like that tend to be online students Tony. We >>>>>> use Skype video conferencing for a few sessions, so have actually seen >>>>>> each >>>>>> other. I'm quieter than people imagine, though none have yet said >>>>>> 'uglier'. I'm very prone to catch whatever bugs go around university >>>>>> environments too, so rather like electronic distance. With colleagues, >>>>>> the >>>>>> situation is we know a lot more about each other than most in online >>>>>> encounters. >>>>>> >>>>>> My version has 'confusion' written through it. I say something, >>>>>> Gabby takes it another way, or knows what I intended and chooses another >>>>>> slant for whatever reason. Online, I assume she has a sense of humour >>>>>> and >>>>>> a good turn with words. Deception is not part of this in the first >>>>>> place. >>>>>> Just guesses with less risk than so called reality. I suppose the >>>>>> classic >>>>>> online deceiver is the groomer - where the intent is to set up and image >>>>>> and then meet the victim. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM UTC, facilitator wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The delusion that we are what we project is interesting Tony. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "We claim to be what we project". Your version allows for reality >>>>>>> mine allows for dishonesty. I think most people want to project a >>>>>>> filtered >>>>>>> image of themselves enough so that if we ever meet people who we've >>>>>>> only >>>>>>> conversed with online we become slightly astonished how different they >>>>>>> appear and act in "real life". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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