Like a solicitor refusing to explain her bill.perhaps. On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 1:16:25 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: > > Nothing more than a point of reference. Life is far beyond delusion yet it > would seem there is nothing but delusion. > People can discuss it all they want. I am not adding more or going to > explain my views on reality. > > تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين > Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres > Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others > > -----Original Message----- > From: archytas <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 2:11 PM > Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions > > So why say this in a discussion group Allan? Why should the rest of us > expand anything? > > On Wednesday, February 11, 2015 at 12:59:24 PM UTC, Allan Heretic wrote: >> >> Delusions are easy to come by. In my life time I have Experienced the >> Reality of God and the effect of one drop of water. >> >> No Tony I will not explain or expand. >> >> تجنب. القتل والاغتصاب واستعباد الآخرين >> Évitez; assassiner, le viol et l'esclavage des autres >> Avoid; murder, rape and enslavement of others >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Molly <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Sent: Wed, 11 Feb 2015 12:54 PM >> Subject: Re: Mind's Eye Re: Delusions >> >> recognizing and examining our self delusions requires that we look within >> us for answers, something most of us are not hardwired for as most are >> extroverts. Most cultures do not support introspection and offer mandates >> for action and group acceptance. Understanding our own delusions means >> understanding our inner workings and we seem trained from the beginning to >> turn away from such shenanigans. Understanding how our communication >> patterns are used to force our will or view on others, how our agendas are >> more important than relationships, how trust in the world, ourselves, life >> (or lack of) effects us can all clear up delusion but I rarely see anyone >> having a breakthrough like this. Instead, I see everyone grinding away on >> the same old tracks. >> >> For me, chaos and struggle around me sometimes builds to such a head that >> I find myself needing to let go of any expectation or even vision of what >> is to come next, take a deep breath, and continue. It has been a long time >> since I entered the dark night of the soul, but find it eventually comes if >> I don't do this as needed. In my life there is a harmony that I feel more >> or less strongly depending on the day or sometimes the moment. If I can >> find my way back to this simple harmony, my experience in the world is >> peaceful. I get weary of struggle, angst, anger, opposition although have >> learned not to avoid any of it either. Delusion can come from a lack of >> information or understanding, or incorrect info and understanding. So what >> is the "correct" standard? The best answer for me has always come >> internally. I've stopped expecting order in experience, but have notice a >> coherence in its elements that mean more than cultural or group or historic >> norms or patterns. I define it in poetic terms and describe it as simple >> harmony. You may call it delusion. For me it is quite clear. >> >> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:35:54 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>> >>> Francis Bacon classified the intellectual fallacies of his time under >>> four headings which he called idols. He distinguished them as idols of the >>> Tribe, idols of the e, idols of the Marketplace and idols of the Theatre. >>> An idol is an image, in this case held in the mind, which receives >>> veneration but is without substance in itself. Bacon did not regard idols >>> as symbols, but rather as fixations. They expand a bit like this: >>> >>> 1. Tribe >>> >>> The example of desiring to see more order in the universe than is >>> actually there is one of his examples of an idol of the tribe. He thinks >>> that we all suffer from that one. >>> >>> 2. Cave >>> >>> An example of an idol of the cave (one of Bacon's examples) is that some >>> minds are more drawn to new things and new ideas than they are to what has >>> been around for a long time, while other minds are more drawn to >>> "tradition" and "old school" ideas and ways than they are to newness. Bacon >>> thinks we should become aware what our own tendency is so that we can make >>> corrections for it. He hopes that by becoming aware of our own mind's >>> tendencies toward loving novelty or tradition that we might be able to >>> "correct" for them and then hopefully see things more clearly and truly. >>> >>> 3. Marketplace >>> >>> We often use words very loosely in common discourse. Bacon sees nothing >>> wrong with that when we are just speaking ordinary language with friends >>> and family. But, when it comes to trying to describe the world accurately >>> and precisely, we should be aware of our tendency to use words loosely and >>> should try to correct for it. When we are trying to speak precisely we >>> should probably not say things like "The mountain is out today" (anyone >>> outside of the Puget Sound area wouldn't have a clue what this means); or >>> "The sun went under a cloud" (the sun did not go anywhere, let along >>> underneath something); or "The sun came up this morning" (the earth >>> actually just rotated). None of those sentences is precisely true, and if >>> we use language imprecisely like this it can sometimes accidentally lead to >>> huge misapprehensions about the world. Bacon thinks this misuse of words >>> and language causes far more problems than we realize. >>> >>> 4. Theatre >>> >>> If you can think of someone you know who has recently bought into a >>> whole new religion or philosophy or psychology, you can probably see how >>> they have suddenly come to interpret everything in the universe according >>> to their new world view. That world view has become the new lens through >>> which they perceive and interpret everything in their world. What Bacon >>> says, though, is that we all do this. We all interpret the world through >>> the lens of our own little world view. It's just easier to see other people >>> doing it than it is to see ourselves doing it. Bacon thinks we should >>> become aware of how these world views shape and distort our own perceptions >>> of the world so that we might be able to correct for it a bit. >>> >>> This is old work. My questions are about how we recognise the 'second >>> head' as a delusion yet move hardly at all on obvious political delusions >>> like economics, votes counting, social care, public ignorance and the >>> making invisible of many social issues. For me, deep questions on self are >>> involved. The internet self is unlikely to be, as Tony says, the same as >>> the 'real'one - but then we have know for much longer than the internet >>> people don't say the same things in different contexts. In fact the man or >>> woman in the bar often looks totally different the morning after, let alone >>> what the politician says in a speech compared with when she is with her >>> backroom boys in the spin room. >>> >>> . >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:17:04 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>> >>>> At least with my knowledge of delusions I can imagine certain people >>>> growing a second head overnight and shooting the wrong spare. >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:11:09 PM UTC, archytas wrote: >>>>> >>>>> That seems to run to form Gabby. >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 10:06:43 PM UTC, Gabby wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Facil picked up your question and gave his answer, I agreed and then >>>>>> came Allan barking at Facil and I told Allan to watch his tongue or >>>>>> leave >>>>>> to his own thread. Only then did you enter the group timeline to start >>>>>> your >>>>>> big daddy has come home show. Now tell me what my deceitful intent was >>>>>> ... >>>>>> Or better, tell me tomorrow, I'm off for today. >>>>>> >>>>>> Am Dienstag, 10. Februar 2015 schrieb archytas : >>>>>> >>>>>>> The only people I meet like that tend to be online students Tony. >>>>>>> We use Skype video conferencing for a few sessions, so have actually >>>>>>> seen >>>>>>> each other. I'm quieter than people imagine, though none have yet said >>>>>>> 'uglier'. I'm very prone to catch whatever bugs go around university >>>>>>> environments too, so rather like electronic distance. With colleagues, >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> situation is we know a lot more about each other than most in online >>>>>>> encounters. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My version has 'confusion' written through it. I say something, >>>>>>> Gabby takes it another way, or knows what I intended and chooses >>>>>>> another >>>>>>> slant for whatever reason. Online, I assume she has a sense of humour >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> a good turn with words. Deception is not part of this in the first >>>>>>> place. >>>>>>> Just guesses with less risk than so called reality. I suppose the >>>>>>> classic >>>>>>> online deceiver is the groomer - where the intent is to set up and >>>>>>> image >>>>>>> and then meet the victim. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 7:54:18 PM UTC, facilitator wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 10, 2015 at 2:11:33 PM UTC-5, archytas wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The delusion that we are what we project is interesting Tony. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "We claim to be what we project". Your version allows for reality >>>>>>>> mine allows for dishonesty. I think most people want to project a >>>>>>>> filtered >>>>>>>> image of themselves enough so that if we ever meet people who we've >>>>>>>> only >>>>>>>> conversed with online we become slightly astonished how different they >>>>>>>> appear and act in "real life". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/minds-eye/2_ICOWzarWY/unsubscribe. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> ""Minds Eye"" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > ""Minds Eye"" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >
-- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
