Matthew, I bet this has always been the case with all car companies. I bet when the Hemi Cuda, Stingray Vette and the 68 Camaro were new, they did not pay the bills at those companies either - they were brand pushers and things the company could point to and say 'look how cool we are' while selling you a four door Dodge Dart to go get groceries with. Same thing today. Nissan makes the GTR but doesn't sell too many, but its fun to put them on posters.. I love the BMW 850's look but it was never intended to be a practical car in any way, it was a way for BMW to say that they could hang with Ferrari (which turned out was not true). Not too many sold of those either. (Was watching Glen Garry Glen Ross the other night for the first time and it was funny to hear Baldwin bragging about having one parked outside in the movie.)
Btw, why does VW not put the R on their webpage? I wonder how it compares to the upcoming Audi S3. Probably very similarly since they are basically the same car. The S3 is supposely never coming to the USA in a manual so the R might be the only way to get the same underpinnings with a manual transmission. (At $15K+ more) -Larry -----Original Message----- From: a2-16v-list [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew Yip Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:48 PM To: Volkswagen a2 16v discussion list Subject: Re: [a2-16v-list] The End of Shifting I believe that's called the "R" because VW keeps changing (increasing) the engine size. That car would have been called the R36, IIRC. Call me an old fart but the R32 and the new R don't appeal to me - they're soft and bloated (just like me). If I wanted a heavy, bloated wannabe hot-hatch, I'd buy an Audi S7 - at least it doesn't pretend to be a sports car. The current GTi is a very nice car but it's more of a luxury car that's fun to drive than a fun-to-drive car that has some nice features. Remember though, we're "enthusiasts" - the market that the manufacturers detest. We whine about wanting fun, sporty cars but won't pay a 2x premium for a stripped down version - Porsche people do that but Porsche people are also silly enough to believe that the Panamera and the Cayenne are "sporty". VW has had an epiphany and a very profitable one at that - American buyers don't want "sporty" or "fun-to-drive". Rather, Americans want vanilla ice cream sold to them as the most special, exotic and unique vanilla ice cream ever produced. Case in point is the new Jetta - it's boring as boring can be BUT it sells because buyers can drive it without every having to say things that Mk2 owners take for granted. No new Jetta owner will ever have to say "Just ignore the jumping tach, that always happens when it rains" or "Don't squeeze the door handle too hard or it'll break and fall out". VW no longer caters to buyers who like cars, rather, they're catering to buyers who want to drive a toaster (or a cardboard box if you like the Kia Soul commercials). The sad reality is those buyers are the real meat & potatoes of the market and without them, we'd be anxiously watching to see if VW was remaining in the American market as we did in the early 1990s. On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 5:32 PM, Holland Phillips <[email protected]> wrote: The other day, I saw what I think was a Mk6 R32. Had large twin center exhaust. Did VW make/import a Mk6 R32? ~Holland On Sep 3, 2014 1:33 PM, "Walz, Jesse" <[email protected]> wrote: > I think VW is trying to appeal to the enthusiast. The new golf R will > make just under 300 HP and VW is hinting at a factory 400 HP special > edition. > > VW makes some great cars now. I have a 2012 4 door gti that is great > car for the money (paid 25 new). It is a very quick car making ~240 > hp and > >290 lbs torque with just a reprogrammed ECU. I did also upgrade the > clutch (still prefer to shift myself). The suspension is the best > part of the car and puts a smile on my face at every turn. If you > haven't driven a GTI lately (MK 5 - 7) they are very good cars. The > Mk 7 will be available with a mechanical differential and big brake > upgrade for around a $1,200 option early next year. So VW has not totally > abandoned the enthusiast. > > I still love my 91 gli, which has been in a restoration the last 10 > years (honestly working on the house and other cars, bikes etc., I > will finish her one day). Prior to the 2012 gti I had a V8 touareg > that was a great > 5,500 lbs SUV, but 13 mpg got old. I miss it all the time. Before > that I had a 2001 golf 1.8t, which was good/quick car and it lasted > over 10 years before trading it in. > > Good to see some discussion on the old list. > > Constant lurker since...so long ago I can't remember when. > > Regards, > Jesse > > -----Original Message----- > From: a2-16v-list [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Matthew Yip > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 4:05 PM > To: Volkswagen a2 16v discussion list > Subject: Re: [a2-16v-list] The End of Shifting > > The R32 was a very strange vehicle with incredibly bad release timing. > Compared to the STI and the Evo, the R32 is a much nicer, more refined > GT car BUT it was compared to the boy-racers and in that comparison, > the R32 fell flat. What was more interesting was that the R32 simply > would not sell at dealerships - the cars languished for months because > no one saw a reason to pay that much for a 3-door VW Golf. Only after > the last of the cars were virtually given away did the value suddenly > skyrocket. > > It's tough to understand what VW's goal is for the American market. > After decades of living on the fringe, VW made a concerted effort to > go main-stream and they've done a fine job with the current Jetta, > Passat and Sports Luxury Utility Trucks in their line-up. > Unfortunately they haven't made a strong attempt to go after the > enthusiast market but Larry is spot-on - enthusiasts are a very vocal > and very frugal bunch. They'll whine and cheese about what they don't > like but they won't pay a penny more to buy the "special". > > > On Wednesday, September 3, 2014 3:54 PM, Larry Velez <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Charlie, > > We on this list are in denial that any new car is as good as our older > cars. :) > > We'll have to make up TShirts: > > "134hp and proud of it!" > > But seriously that Scirroco looks cool. But I think VW gave up on giving > in to enthusiast pressure in the USA when they they sold the R32 and > they sat on the lot for a while. Enthusiasts talk a big game but > don't vote with their wallets. > > Larry > > -----Original Message----- > From: a2-16v-list [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Charlie Russo > Sent: Wednesday, September 3, 2014 2:30 PM > To: Volkswagen a2 16v discussion list > Subject: Re: [a2-16v-list] The End of Shifting > > About a year ago a friend of mine in Maryland purchased a RHD VW > Scirocco Storm. It had been imported from England to here in Pennsylvania. > He says driving and shifting this VDub is a blast. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew Yip > Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 3:32 PM > To: Volkswagen a2 16v discussion list > Subject: Re: [a2-16v-list] The End of Shifting > > I remember reading that auto-tragic transmissions in Europe were a > rarity although I think that's changing since the concept of a Global > Market is such that what sells the most is what is foisted on the rest of the > world. > > I had a Mini (not a MINI) that was RHD - shifting was easy compared to > less complicated tasks such as finding the turn signal indicator stalk > which was on the right side of the column. > > > On Tuesday, September 2, 2014 3:25 PM, Les Noriel > <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Amusing. Five years ago while vacationing in Ireland, we rented a > car. We had to pay extra to get an automatic. It was highly > recommended to get the auto because I spent more attention on driving > the opposite side of the road. Shifting through the gears with the > left hand also felt awkward. So the extra money was well spent. > > Don't know if it's still that way today. > > Les > > On Tuesday, September 2, 2014, Charlie Russo <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Sadly manual transmissions in vehicles are going the way of the dinosaur. > > Current VW offerings are no exception. IIRC less than 5% of VWs have > > manual transmissions. That is a far cry from where VW was when our > > 16Vs were > new. > > > > I enjoy manual shifting when I drive my '85 Golf on my days off or > > when I am exercising my other old VWs so I consider myself very > > lucky. > > > > I plan on taking my '87 GTI 16V to the Antique Car Show at Hershey, > > PA this October. So, I will be enjoying manual shifting and talking > > about 16Vs and VWs. Last time I took my 16V to Hershey I could not > > believe how many former VW salespeople and Techs I talked with. I > > spoke with a few former 16V owners as well. If anyone here on the > > list is going to Hershey this year look > for > > me and my '87 GTI 16V in the HPOF Class in the show on Saturday. > > > > Charlie > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Larry Velez > > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:37 AM > > To: Volkswagen a2 16v discussion list > > Subject: [a2-16v-list] The End of Shifting > > > > I am sure you all are reading in the various car rags how Porsche > > seems > to > > be abandoning the manual gear box with the latest GT3. Ferrari only > > sold 1% of their cars as manuals last year. Apparently well > > budgeted people no longer want to shift their transmissions > > themselves. The robots have won another battle. > > > > So enjoy your manual shifting in your 16Vs this weekend, you'll be > > telling stories to future generations of how things were in the old > > days. > > > > Speaking of shifting, Chad came by my place this past weekend and > > he was able to check out the patient in the garage (I am determined > > to get her running this year) and I got a chance to get a ride in his Jetta > > GLI 16V > > Turbo. Chad made me self-conscious about shifting too > fast/aggressively. > > How did you all learn to shift the "right" way and are some habits > > better on the transmission for longevity? > > > > Larry > > 91 GTI 16V (New Fuel Filter installed, New Transfer Pump installed, > > Transfer Pump Assembly rebuilt, fuel delivery troubleshooting > > continues to main pump > > next) > > _______________________________________________ > > a2-16v-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list > > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > > _______________________________________________ > > a2-16v-list mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list > > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > > > > > -- > Sent from Gmail Mobile > > > _______________________________________________ > a2-16v-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > _______________________________________________ > a2-16v-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > > _______________________________________________ > a2-16v-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > _______________________________________________ > a2-16v-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > _______________________________________________ > a2-16v-list mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.a2-16v.com/mailman/listinfo/a2-16v-list > For list archives, see listinfo link above. > > This message (including any attachments) may contain confidential, > proprietary, privileged and/or private information. 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