The page load will be exactly the same in both situations.
Would would success look like?

I also worry about doing this in alpha as alpha tends to have a small
audience of people with invested interest in the project (e.g. editors or
developers). I think the reader persona is the one we should be optimising
for and these tend to exist in beta...


On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM, Jared Zimmerman <
[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm always reticent to add more preferences. I like Jon's suggestion of a
> way of the app learning from the users behaviors, although that can also
> lead to unexpected and inconsistent behavior.
>
> Instead of adding more prefs, i'd recommend that we try some of the
> following approaches.
>
>
>    - In alpha expand by default, and collect metrics about page load
>    times (in real world bandwidth scenarios)
>    - Instrument a metric of what percentage of an article is viewed.
>    - Instrument a metric of what percentage of sections that are expanded
>    - Determine if the term in the search referer is in a sub-section and
>    expand and go to that section by default
>    - see if percent article read is different in autoexpanded and
>    non-autoexpanded articles
>
> see if users freak out…
>
>
>
> *
> *
> *
> *
> *Jared Zimmerman * \\  Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia
> Foundation
> M : +1 415 609 4043 |   :  @JaredZimmerman<https://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Jon Robson <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> Thanks so much for all the discussion so far.
>> I'm not so sure about infinite scroll I need to think more about this. It
>> seems wrong to me as there are always a finite amount of sections (so it's
>> never truly infinite or close to looking like infinite) and these sections
>> are already in the HTML so it seems wrong / unnecessary to hide them.
>>
>> That said I think there are benefits to both approaches of the existing
>> behaviour - one where they are all open (and can be collapsed) and one
>> where they are all collapsed (and can be open)
>>
>> I think a sticky preference would be best that uses a combination of
>> localStorage and user preferences (the latter taking preference). I think
>> such a setting could be surfaced as a simple toggle control at the bottom
>> of the footer (although I'm not sure what the icon would look like).
>>
>> We could also imagine 'learning' a preference based on behaviour by a
>> user (do they always open all the sections they come across?)
>>
>> Personally the current setup only makes sense to me if the page loads
>> quicker due to not serving the html inside sections and loading the content
>> of those sections only when the section is toggled open (ie. lazy loading
>> content of sections). In the current form we serve all the content and due
>> to this there is an inevitable flash of the section collapsing as the
>> JavaScript and entire page has loaded.
>>
>> I'm not sure I agree with Steven's assessment that this will make
>> navigating between sections difficult - behaviour gets reverted - you close
>> the section to see the next section. This is akin to flicking through a
>> book and flicking to the next page (closing the section) if the heading at
>> the top of the page doesn't interest you. It just means you don't see all
>> the headings in one go which could be a good or bad thing.
>>
>> Is there an A/B test we could do here? In situation A we show all
>> sections open by default on say the Barack Obama article and in case B show
>> all sections closed by default (note this is a simple line of JavaScript).
>> If we were to do this what would we be optimising for?
>> * Would it be how many sections are collapsed?
>> * What % of the article is read (could equate to how far down the article
>> a user gets)?
>>
>> I think this matter can be solved by collecting data...
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Adam Baso <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Resending now that I'm on the [email protected] list.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 9:55 AM, Adam Baso <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There's been some additional discussion on this, taking search engine
>>>> and Find in Page optimization into account.
>>>>
>>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=45951
>>>> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=49202 (my duplicate
>>>> with some Find in Page-oriented stuff)
>>>>
>>>> The smart search engine / Find in Page stuff is moderately complex, so
>>>> I think the tappable options for section expansion are the place to start.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to me that the following achieves TOC-like information at a
>>>> glance while balancing page load performance, usability, user choice, and
>>>> user choice measurement:
>>>>
>>>> * Don't auto-expand articles by default
>>>> * Do have a JavaScript-injected "Expand Sections" / "Collapse Sections"
>>>> feature at the top of articles with multiple sections
>>>> * Do have a user preference for Auto-Expand Sections on Article Load.
>>>> * To gauge love/hate for features, have two preferences as follows
>>>>
>>>> *Show 'Expand/Collapse Sections' Option at Top of Articles*
>>>> On / Off    (default = On)
>>>>
>>>> *Auto-Expand Sections on Article Load*
>>>> *Note: this may slow page load time*
>>>> On / Off    (default = Off)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Jared Zimmerman <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I like the idea of expanding by default because it fixes my pet peev
>>>>> of not being able to do a find on page from my mobile browser without 
>>>>> first
>>>>> expanding all sections.
>>>>>
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *
>>>>> *Jared Zimmerman * \\  Director of User Experience \\ Wikimedia
>>>>> Foundation
>>>>> M : +1 415 609 4043 |   :  
>>>>> @JaredZimmerman<https://twitter.com/JaredZimmerman>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Mathieu Stumpf <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't followed the thread, but if you try to consult the french
>>>>>> wiktionary with the mobile interface it's impossible: section title
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> links so when you try to uncollapse them, you follow the link.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Le lundi 16 septembre 2013 à 11:05 -0700, Brion Vibber a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Mon, Sep 16, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Arthur Richards
>>>>>> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> >         If we still want to explore dynamically loading article
>>>>>> >         sections (which we all seemed to be in favor of when we did
>>>>>> >         annual planning back in June), it's hard for me to imagine
>>>>>> how
>>>>>> >         we could realistically pull that off if we display sections
>>>>>> >         uncollapsed as default.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > We could rig up an "infinite scroll" type of situation, where we
>>>>>> > basically:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > * load section 0 and section 1
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > * leave placeholder <div>s for sections 2 and beyond
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > * when the user scrolls down into section 1, start loading section 2
>>>>>> > in the background
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > ** prepare the same thing for the bottom of section 2 load section
>>>>>> 3,
>>>>>> > etc...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Of course a problem with this setup is that if you go offline
>>>>>> partway
>>>>>> > through reading the article, the later sections might be unavailable
>>>>>> > when you scroll down to them.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > -- brion
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Design mailing list
>>>>>> > [email protected]
>>>>>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/design
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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