Thanks for taking initiative on this, Michael! Talk pages are indeed part of the life-blood of Wikipedia, and should ideally be accessible from the app. Here, however, are the challenges I see with the kind of implementation that you're proposing:
Amir correctly notes that Flow is gradually poising itself to replace traditional talk pages, being backed by structured data and a nice API that the apps will be able to use natively. If we want to get talk pages "right," we would need to implement a great native presentation of Flow. But more importantly, you mentioned yourself that talk pages are really part of the _editing_ experience. And, quite frankly, we have to remind ourselves that the apps are still light years away from having a good editing experience. Therefore, providing access to talk pages without providing the other fundamentals that are central to editing (moderation tools, watchlists, diffs, notifications, etc) may be putting the cart before the horse, and may lead to confusion. In fact, I'm not sure if any *one* of those editing features makes sense without all the others. And to implement all of those features in the apps would require a department-wide focus on editing, which is currently not the case. All that being said, I'm not opposed to making gradual progress towards better editing features, as long as we maintain our focus on creating a beautiful reading experience. To sum up, I'm not opposed to adding an option to go to the Talk page of an article, but until the app has a more robust editing experience, I would suggest that this option takes the user to the Mobile Web version of the talk page (like we currently do for article history), and make it much less prominent than a primary action in the Toolbar. On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 1:34 PM, Amir E. Aharoni < [email protected]> wrote: > > Now, this is enabled on certain pages at the moment, no? > > Yes, only on particular pages. > > At least one Wikipedia has it on Village Pump - Catalan: > https://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viquip%C3%A8dia:La_taverna/Novetats . > > AFAIK, the intention is to transition all talk and discussion ages to Flow > some day, and I don't know when will it actually happen. Maybe Danny has a > better idea. > > > -- > Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי > http://aharoni.wordpress.com > “We're living in pieces, > I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore > > 2015-07-22 12:28 GMT-05:00 Adam Baso <[email protected]>: > >> I see. Now, this is enabled on certain pages at the moment, no? Or is >> there a means of activating the Flow mobile-compatible mode with well >> formed URLs or something like that for any given <lang>.m.wikipedia.org >> page? Apologies, I do most of my Talk page stuff on desktop typically. But >> that said, that is a pretty nice layout on those links you listed! >> >> -Adam >> > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:02 AM, Amir E. Aharoni < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> No, I'm not sure what does mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop do for Flow. >> >> I was referring to rendering of Flow on mobile websites, for example >> https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:CX or >> https://he.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Amire80 . >> >> Trying it on an actual phone gives the best effect. >> >> Though there certainly are some issues ( >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T93430 ), Flow pages work FAR better >> on phones than the classic talk pages. >> >> >> -- >> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >> “We're living in pieces, >> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >> >> 2015-07-22 11:58 GMT-05:00 Adam Baso <[email protected]>: >> >>> Amir, are you referring to use of the inbuilt "desktop" mode of Flow, >>> such as >>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki?mobileaction=toggle_view_desktop >>> ? >>> >>> -Adam >>> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 8:30 AM, Amir E. Aharoni < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> It's probably a dilettante-ish comment, but for a while already Flow has >>> been working quite well on mobile web, incomparably better than the old >>> talk pages, and it could be Flow's biggest "selling point". My intuition >>> tells me that work to support talk pages on mobile should focus more on >>> Flow and less on the old talk pages. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי >>> http://aharoni.wordpress.com >>> “We're living in pieces, >>> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore >>> >>> 2015-07-22 10:12 GMT-05:00 Adam Baso <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> Moving discussion to mobile-l. >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Michael Holloway <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> OK by me. >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:53 AM, Adam Baso <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Okay to move this discussion to mobile-l? >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm talking with Editing (includes VE and Flow) this morning about >>>>>> engagement model and their short to medium term roadmap, which should be >>>>>> helpful in your guys' examination of bridge/stopgap solutions for this >>>>>> pretty fundamental stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Michael Holloway < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hey all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Last week at Wikimania I had some interesting conversations about >>>>>>> the Android app. On the whole, people really like the new and improved >>>>>>> app, but there are definitely frustrations with the editing experience >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> from people thinking it's not possible to edit in the app, to >>>>>>> uninstalling >>>>>>> it so that Google links direct them to the mobile website, where they >>>>>>> vastly prefer the editing experience. Editors are a small but important >>>>>>> group and I don't think we're doing them justice at the moment. >>>>>>> Although >>>>>>> reading is our focus, I would suggest we devote some resources to >>>>>>> improving >>>>>>> the editing experience as well. (It turns out that Abbey Ripstra and >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> design research team are running a survey research study on mobile >>>>>>> contribution experiences as I write, so I'll be interested to hear what >>>>>>> insights they have to offer.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I also had a conversation with Asaf Bartov, who mentioned that it >>>>>>> would be nice to be able to access talk pages in the mobile app. I'm >>>>>>> sympathetic to this; most users may not care about talk pages, but >>>>>>> they're >>>>>>> very important to the editing experience, and even for savvy readers >>>>>>> they >>>>>>> offer useful commentary about what's on (or off) the page and why. So >>>>>>> yesterday afternoon I hacked up a POC patch to add a toolbar button to >>>>>>> flip >>>>>>> back and forth between main articles and talk pages. Have a look and >>>>>>> let >>>>>>> me know what you think! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/226297/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "android" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/d/msgid/android/CAMEEL1-AxGuy%2BGUT0f9fYiMVzqpGGwym58a%2BirvaG5njvVQ_Uw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/a/wikimedia.org/d/msgid/android/CAMEEL1-AxGuy%2BGUT0f9fYiMVzqpGGwym58a%2BirvaG5njvVQ_Uw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Mobile-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l >>>> >>>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Mobile-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile-l > >
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