It's easy to say that the forums and their activity are easy to control, except that's never true of any environment (just look at these groups - anyone can post anything, and we are all free to disagree with each other - hey, that's the internet). The problem was that the forums, when they work, are great. But when they are bad, they can be really bad. We get dragged into dealing with them. Even this thread, which is civil and not bad but a bit pedantic, requires us to act.
And so when someone shows up that's a pain, or disagrees with how the moderators are doing their work, or whatever, it reflects poorly on the community, poorly on us (the developers whose names are attached to and responsible for the site), and, worse, poorly on the framework. So to say that we could do this or that, when no matter what we do there will always be a) people who disagree with our choices and b) people who are trouble no matter what (again, hey, it's the internet), our main priority was to ensure that the framework is not affected by these uncontrollable factors. -aaron electronbender wrote: > > > Yes, seriously guys. > You are the core developers, i dont see why you are getting so cramped > up answering newbies on the forums. > Those things should be moderated like hell, keeping post like those > out of the loop and keeping everyone happy. > It seams to me like the downfall of the foums was completly > avoidable. > I'm sure that there are plenty of people that are active in the forums > that would be more than happy to keep the newbies at bay, or at > minimum, have them conforming to the forum rules. > > On Sep 19, 1:59 am, CroNiX <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Very well stated Aaron. And besides the mootorial, there is also >> Aarons book by Apress, which you can now find a quick link to on the >> mootools.net website in the lower left (also a link to mooforum.net >> was added to the Community section on the right). Cmon Aaron...plug >> plug plug! LOL >> >> On Sep 18, 8:44 am, nutron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> > > If you, the core developers, find that forums are just tiresome and >> > > none-productive, I totally respect and understand that. You want to >> > > spend your time developing. How about just setting up a forum >> (doesn't >> > > take too long!) and find some dedicated individuals willing to >> > > moderate it (doesn't take too long either!)? Just set it up and never >> > > visit it at all. At least you have then given the community an >> > > official place to hang out, share, connect and most importantly: >> GROW! >> >> > Hi, I'm Aaron, and I'm part of the dev group. >> >> > I thought I'd answer this question directly, since the current state of >> the >> > forums is, in some part, my responsibility (not wholly, but partially). >> > About a year ago maybe, I'm not 100% sure, we, the dev group, were >> > struggling with the forums. On the one hand, it made the community >> visible >> > and easy to interact with. On the other hand, it was indeed, full of >> total >> > noobs. The noobs being there didn't bother us though. It was the >> interaction >> > between the *lazy* posters and the more advanced users (and even, >> sometimes, >> > members of the dev group). >> >> > The "lazy" users were the ones who just showed up and said "Accordion >> > doesn't work" or whatever. They didn't follow the instructions. They >> didn't >> > search for an answer first. They rarely supplied code and, when they >> did, it >> > was often very clear that helping that person was going to be fruitless >> - >> > they didn't want to learn. They only wanted their page to do something >> so >> > they could move on to their next copy and paste activity. >> >> > The more advanced users, understandably, grew tired of this sort of >> behavior >> > and increasingly reacted negatively to it. If someone showed up and >> posted >> > something like "Framework X doesn't do this. This is stupid." then all >> hell >> > would break loose. >> >> > The result was that, increasingly, MooTools was getting a bad rep (and >> by >> > extension the dev group were, too). The general perception was that we >> were >> > unfriendly towards new comers and downright brutal towards them >> sometimes. >> > It was perceived that we had a strong dislike towards jQuery and that >> we >> > viewed ourselves as superior to all other frameworks. Despite our >> efforts to >> > say otherwise (for >> example,http://www.mootorial.com/wiki/mootorial/00a-mootoolsvsothers), >> this rep >> > persisted. >> >> > The debate was between two options: close the forums entirely or just >> let it >> > run rampant. The latter didn't seem like a good option. >> >> > It was MY idea to disassociate the forums from the MooTools site >> entirely, >> > and I'm still glad we did it. How people conduct themselves here in >> these >> > forums (or mooforum.net) is up to them. The reputation that our >> community >> > gets is up to or community to earn and shape. But no longer is the >> project >> > itself responsible for it (well, it never could have been, but at least >> this >> > way it's less likely that the framework and its developers will be held >> > accountable for it). >> >> > I actually suggested first that we set up something like mooforum.net. >> Just >> > take the exact software and everything and move it to another domain. >> The >> > devs could, for the most part, stay the hell away from it. I even >> suggested >> > we set up some generic forum about javascript frameworks and invite >> other >> > frameworks to send their users there (mootools.jsforums.com, >> > jquery.jsforums.com, etc). That suggestion didn't go over that well, >> but >> > everyone did agree on moving the forums away from Mootools.net, and so >> we >> > have what we have now. >> >> > I hope that this clears things up a bit. We do want to see MooTools >> grow and >> > we do want new users to be able to learn it (hello mootorial!), and we >> are >> > friendly, helpful people (the devs and most of the community alike). >> But our >> > first priority is to build a solid framework that people can use, and >> having >> > the forums not be our responsibility is a huge benefit. It's a weight >> off >> > our minds as well as a daily chore we don't have a lot of time for. >> >> > So we charge you - all of you - to be nice and helpful wherever >> possible. >> > When someone is being lazy or ugly towards you, just walk away. If you >> can't >> > say anything nice at all... find someone who needs your help and >> respects >> > you and help them instead. >> >> > Sorry this rant is rather long... >> >> > -Aaron >> >> > ----- >> > The MooTools Tutorial: http://www.mootorial.comwww.mootorial.com >> > CNET Clientside: http://clientside.cnet.comclientside.cnet.com >> > -- >> > View this message in >> context:http://n2.nabble.com/Missing-mootools-blog-updates-tp1092259p1098560.... >> > Sent from the MooTools Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > ----- The MooTools Tutorial: http://www.mootorial.com www.mootorial.com CNET Clientside: http://clientside.cnet.com clientside.cnet.com -- View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/Missing-mootools-blog-updates-tp1092259p1108516.html Sent from the MooTools Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
