I was talking about use Bootstrap as base CSS framework, mainly for responsive layout, not as final CSS. ;-) With some extra CSS code website could look as professional as we want.
Anyway I think the discussion about the look must come after, mockup discussion. El jueves, 21 de marzo de 2013 12:02:17 UTC+1, Arian Stolwijk escribió: > > I see no reason to use Bootstrap on MooTools.net. Bootstrap is great for > prototyping a website or quickly putting something together. MooTools.net > should look professional and not something that is put together in a few > hours. > > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 11:53 AM, hartum <har...@gmail.com > <javascript:>>wrote: > >> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WmcH8S9hoLM/UUrl1VzDZ9I/AAAAAAAAA3Q/8evqfKklf7I/s1600/MooTools-Docs---CoreCore.png> >> *no fucking way to move this image :-P >> >> >> Hello everyone >> >> I agree that it is time to redesign the site, bearing in mind two main >> objectives, usability and self-promotion. >> >> It seems important to separate these two issues in order to better >> organize work to do and design a strategy to be successful (by the way, >> very good target list Benjamin). >> >> *For promotion* is essential to establish channels of communication >> between the Mootool's community and social channels (twitter, facebook, >> etc. ..) >> >> *For usability*, there are a few points that I would like (please do not >> take these comments as a personal attack, not): >> >> >> - Rarely homepage is a key page. [...] The purpose of the home page is >> usually the direct users of the authentic key pages, so we should focus >> our efforts on the design of the parts that are used, and then decide >> where >> we want to direct visitors. If someone from mootools core with access >> to the statistics could tell us what are the most visited pages, would >> be helpful >> - Usually is a good idea to do some mockups, to decide which elements are >> present and in that place, before deciding other visual elements such >> as colors, fonts, alignments and other. There are plenty of online >> tools to make and share mockups, I suggest a few: >> - Mockflow <http://www.mockflow.com/> >> - Mockingbird <https://gomockingbird.com/> >> - Fluid IA <http://stage.fluidia.org/> >> - I agree that the proposed design documentation, not comfortable. In my >> opinion it is more comfortable, 3-column structure in tree. Look at >> image at the top >> >> I can help with mockups, design and Spanish translation*. >> >> Loose thoughts and opinions:* >> In my opinion the spirit of mootools should be a little more ambitious, >> enough of the topic: >> "Mootools is for developers and jQuery is for designers who do not want >> to learn to program" >> >> Mootools can do the same visual tricks on jQuery DOM, and also is a great >> tool for developers who want to do more serious things. Try to create a >> new topic: >> "Mootools, great for designers and professional tool for developers" >> >> I make reference to jQuery so, not because I look like an enemy to fight, >> I really do not think jQuery is an enemy, but if you think it is a model of >> success that we can learn several things. I do not know what the job >> situation in your countries, but in Spain I assure you that jQuery is a "de >> facto" standard and a requirement demanded in the job offers. >> The idea is not to pit against jQuery Mootools but use their fame to draw >> attention to Mootools. >> >> I do not want to enter the debate, "mootools is not about animations and >> changing colors, mootools is to do, blah, blah, blah ...." well that it >> is a multipurpose framework with incredible capabilities, but what caught >> my attention first were "the fireworks", and then discovered that there was >> much more. >> The fact is that it is easier to attract people to the community if you >> first call your attention. It is difficult to show all there under the >> surface if no one is watching. >> >> >> Another issue with which I disagree (sorry Benjamin) is to use a small >> and unknown CSS framework (VirtuosiMedia) for the layout of the site, >> rather than take the fame and the community behind Bootstrap. I think if >> one of the basic ideas of the redesign is to promote, using Bootstrap will >> make people realize that you can still use the Mootools library with >> Bootstrap. Again this is not to make enemies if not allies, to use force >> of contrary to our own benefit. >> >> >> Let me know what do you think about all this. >> >> Regards (and sorry about my english) >> >> El jueves, 21 de marzo de 2013 03:01:04 UTC+1, Benjamin Kuker escribió: >> >>> Thanks, Erik. What you wrote mirrors my own sentiment as well. I really >>> feel like the community is the key thing to spark here. Sure, the Core code >>> could use updates from time to time, especially with all the new devices >>> joining the market, but it's pretty mature and has a sensible API. >>> Personally, there isn't a ton I would change about it, though I have a few >>> minor ideas. Really, though, I think that most of the future of MooTools >>> could live on through plugins, which allows anyone to contribute to the >>> ecosystem without needing to make a huge commitment. We all benefit from >>> that. We have a good start with the Forge, but I think we could do even >>> more. >>> >>> The biggest part to growing and revitalizing the community, in my >>> opinion, is to make it easier for new users to dive in. This is an area >>> where jQuery has excelled. Even though MooTools is currently marketed >>> toward intermediate and advanced JavaScript developers, I think the >>> majority of web developers probably aren't there and simply want to >>> download a plugin to make a neat widget on a page. Do you need to change >>> the API to be more jQuery-like? Not at all. I think we just need to do a >>> little better job of explaining things to developers who have no idea how >>> to use or build out object-oriented classes, why they would want to do >>> that, and how to use MooTools if you just want to include a plugin on your >>> page. Aaron has done a lot of that with the MooTorial and with his jQuery >>> vs MooTools site, but it can't hurt to have more. >>> >>> Here are some ideas that I'd like to throw out there as a possible >>> roadmap: >>> >>> - Start with the redesign of the site to start regenerating interest. >>> - Pay attention to things like SEO and social throughout. Page title and >>> descriptions, good anchor text, no missing content or funny redirects, >>> microdata, etc. >>> - Rename the forge to plugins to make it more accessible and SEO >>> friendly. >>> - Add social sharing widgets on the individual plugin pages and blog >>> posts. >>> - Hook up all of the social media accounts so that they are updated >>> automatically whenever a new blog post or plugin is added. We could even >>> add a mailing list that sends a weekly digest through something like >>> MailChimp. >>> - Expand the current demo suite with more examples. >>> - Use jsFiddle to put actual demos in the documentation for each class, >>> with an emphasis on practical examples and best practices. >>> - Rework the Forge slightly to add a custom download feature. Basically, >>> this would work the same way as a shopping cart: you add which plugins you >>> want to download and when you "checkout", it grabs all of the necessary >>> MooTools Core/More dependencies along with the plugins and packages it all >>> together for you. >>> - Along with the above, maybe More could be broken up and moved >>> completely to the plugins section to simplify things for new users. >>> - The plugin instructions are great, but we could also add a plugin >>> template on GitHub that people can just fork whenever they want to create a >>> new plugin. >>> - Similar to the current Forge, we could create a directory for MooTools >>> resources that anyone could submit to: books, tutorials, videos, and a >>> community showcase. >>> - Add more beginner tutorials. I'd be willing to write some and I'm sure >>> others would too. >>> - Watch the MooTools tag on StackOverflow and similar sites and try to >>> help out as much as possible. >>> - Submit a package to PHP's Composer and get an updated Ruby Gem for the >>> latest builds of MooTools. I'm not familiar with them, but I'm sure Python, >>> Node, and other languages have something similar. It would be great to have >>> an interface in there for plugins as well. >>> - Personally, I'd love to see more resources develop around testing >>> JavaScript. I know MooTools has a test runner, but I'd love more docs and >>> tutorials on how to adapt that to my own code. If we could make testing >>> more accessible, I think we could draw in a lot more professionals as well. >>> >>> Obviously, I can't commit to doing all of that on my own, but I thought >>> maybe I could start a discussion and maybe get the ball rolling. >>> >>> On Wednesday, March 20, 2013 5:41:37 PM UTC-7, Erik Cervin Edin wrote: >>>> >>>> This is cleaner, >>>> nice work! >>>> >>>> I agree that a redesigning the site would send a strong message. Or >>>> rather, that the site as it is doesn't look maintained. There's nothing on >>>> the site that gives the indication that the framework is being updated or >>>> worked on. Since most people will only see the MooTools website & not >>>> places like this Google group, I don't think it's strange >>>> people perceive the framework/community as 'dying'. Evidently from this >>>> group, however, the community is still very much active and I think it's >>>> important that this shows. >>>> As you've mentioned before Aaron, the primary focus of MooTools has not >>>> been community, so I gather that valuable time & resources were probably >>>> less so spent on maintaining the website. I think it is important, >>>> however, >>>> to spend more time & resources on the MooTools website & its Social >>>> Media channels, as they represent MooTools externally. People will make >>>> superficial assumptions about the MooTools community and the framework, >>>> based on MooTools' online presence. I think this is a great first step in >>>> showing people that this show is still going on. >>>> >>>> >>>> Btw, here are some Alexa stats: >>>> http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/**jquery.com<http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/jquery.com> >>>> http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/**mootools.net<http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mootools.net> >>>> >>>> I had no idea that jQuery had such a good site ranking, it's 761! (Moo >>>> is at 26,333) >>>> jQ has a lot of sites linking in: 43,055 vs Moo's 5,971 >>>> >>>> A big reason for jQuery's success seems to be the SEO snowball like >>>> effect created by its large community. Constantly talking about, referring >>>> and linking to the framework, pulling in more and more users. As these >>>> users learn the framework, they post queries (pun intended), building upon >>>> the knowledge base and attracting new users. The circle repeats itself, >>>> building a Web 2.0 community that has become very effective at promoting, >>>> maintaining and supporting the framework. >>>> >>>> I think Moo has a lot to gain from a stronger community. A good place >>>> to start seems to be increasing the engagement of the existing community >>>> and getting out more user-generated content that relates to the framework, >>>> on top of keeping its external presence vibrant. This can be simple stuff >>>> - >>>> answering questions on message boards, explaining & linking to the >>>> documentation, providing alternative MooTools solutions to jQuery ones >>>> etc. >>>> Doing a little bit each person, and as a group, building a stronger >>>> community. >>>> >>>> -my €0.02 >>>> >>>> But yeah Benjamin, loving the work, keep at it. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Benjamin Kuker < >>>> con...@virtuosimedia.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for the feedback, everyone, I'm glad you like the general >>>>> direction. A couple follow-up questions before I update the mocks: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - My original intention was for the download button to just link >>>>> to the download page, where you could customize your build and >>>>> download >>>>> older versions as well. I didn't put the version number on it because, >>>>> in >>>>> my mind, that implied just a direct download of that specific version, >>>>> whereas the generic download label would be less confusing if it led >>>>> to the >>>>> download page. Still, that an incredibly small detail and I'm fine >>>>> either >>>>> way. >>>>> - I can definitely shrink the main icons. I think I want to add a >>>>> fifth one in there for the docs page anyways, so that works. >>>>> - How would you feel about adding a "Resources" page to the main >>>>> navigation? I didn't include the books on the front page because I >>>>> thought >>>>> they might be better suited for a page like that, but I could add them >>>>> back >>>>> in if people think the front page is the best spot for them. >>>>> - Would it be too spammy to include a link to my UI framework in >>>>> the footer if the redesign utilizes it? The framework itself is open >>>>> source, MooTools-based, and not a direct clone/port of Bootstrap, but >>>>> it >>>>> will eventually have an optional commercial tool/service for it as >>>>> well. >>>>> I've put a *ton *work into it and hope that it will eventually >>>>> become the MooTools alternative to Bootstrap. Taking in your >>>>> suggestion, >>>>> Aaron, I was thinking about a link along the lines of "Made responsive >>>>> with >>>>> VM UI Framework". However, if people feel uncomfortable about that, I >>>>> could >>>>> leave it out of the footer. >>>>> - I forgot to add anything related to Media Temple. What exactly >>>>> is the relationship? Are they a sponsor? Should I add something >>>>> similar to >>>>> the current site? >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "MooTools Users" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to mootools-user...@googlegroups.**com. >>>>> For more options, visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MooTools Users" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to mootools-user...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> > > -- --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MooTools Users" group. 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