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Abe (and so many others, including myself),
Yes, PayPal is was too quick to take money out of a seller's account. They
shoot first and ask questions later... well, sometimes they don't even bother to
ask questions later. Or if they do, they don't listen to your
answer. Sometimes they "freeze" the account so you can't even continue to
conduct business. There are a couple of things you can do to help with their
idiocy:
1) Have a separate PayPal account that you use to" receive payments only"
into and don't leave very much money in it.. This makes it harder for
them to take money away from you without at least asking first. But... I have
heard reports that if they really want to take money from you and you don't have
enough in the account they will make a withdrawal from your bank account
and/or credit card (!) So:
2) In combination with the above, have a separate bank account that
you use with your "receive payments only" account -- and don't keep very much
money in there either. Also, do not link your credit card to this "receive
payments only account". This will mean the "receive payments only" account will
show up on PayPal as "Unverified". Big deal. So what?
3) Set up a second PayPal account that is totally separate from the above
PayPal account, using a different bank account. This becomes the account you use
for making your own payments and serves as a "back up" account so you can
continue to do business in the event PayPal decides to freeze your "receive
payments only" account. If you're married or have a trusted friend or
relative, have this account registered in a different name from the
"receive payments only" account.
PayPal policy actually allows and encourages the same person to have two
separate accounts, one for business and one for personal -- I just suggest
putting an informational and financial "firewall" between the two.
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004
12:17
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Paypal
Indeed. It was over a year ago when I sold a poster for around
$800 to
someone in Germany. The buyer asked that I ship the item via Fedex
(I
usually just ship via Airmail). So I obliged by shipping it Fedex, which
of
course had a tracking number. Only problem was, Fedex lost the package
for
three weeks! I had the tracking number.... but that doesn't matter
to
Paypal; you have to have a tracking # that proves the package was
delivered.
So if the courier fucks up, the seller bites the bullet.
Amazingly, the
buyer then insisted that I refund his money (remember it was
his courier of
choice that caused the problem). I told him: not my problem;
your courier
lost it; sorry. He filed the complaint with paypal, and they
took the $800
out of my account promptly. There was nothing I could do even
though I could
prove that I shipped it. You can't talk to anybody at
paypal; you can't
plead your case; you can't write them a letter; it's
either a tracking #
that shows delivered or bye bye cash! Fedex found the
package 3 weeks after
I shipped it, finally delivered it; and the buyer at
least had the decency
to drop the claim; so I ended up getting my money. I
have never been more
pissed off in regards to an eBay
transaction.
-abe
>From: JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To:
JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject:
Re: [MOPO] Paypal
>Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:42:28
+1000
>
>Hi JR
>
>The amount was only 16.99 but I was
more concerned that someone else could
>be caught this way over a large
transaction. Lets say a US seller sends a
>package to Europe with a
value of $1000.00 but cannot provide the "online
>tracking" that paypal
require. If the buyer decides to dispute the
>transaction they get their
money back - no questions asked, no chance for
>the seller to provide
any response, end of story. I'm not sure how things
>work in the US
these days but I dont think the US postal service provide on
>line
tracking for each and every transaction. I know that even if I
fully
>insure the article from Australia (which I do on large
transactions whether
>the buyer pays for it or not) that will not
satisfy paypal.
>
>The reason for my post was that I thought other
sellers should be aware of
>this. I have had a couple of private emails
from sellers who have had
>similar experiences. I can live with this
happening once in 5 years but I
>would not have been happy if the amount
had have been large. Hopefully it
>will be another 5 years before
anything similar happens.
>
>Its a jungle out
there.
>
>
>Regards
>John
>
>JOHN REID
VINTAGE MOVIE MEMORABILIA
>PO Box 92
>Palm Beach
>Qld
4221
>Australia
>WEBSITE:
>www.moviemem.com
>
>eBay
Userid: johnwr
>
>All you need to know about Australian
Posters......
>http://www.moviemem.com/about.html
>
----- Original Message -----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To:
JOHN REID Vintage Movie Memorabilia ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 7:04 PM
> Subject: Re:
[MOPO] Paypal
>
>
>
John,
>
> Sorry to hear that this fellow used PayPal
to hurt you -- you've always
>been great about shipping posters all the
way from down under for only
>$7.00 USD. I hope the refund amount wasn't
too much. It's pretty ironic
>that PayPal allows sellers to accept
payments from "international buyers"
>(even encourages it) but that if
there is a problem with an international
>buyer they simply say that you
ship international "at your own risk".
>Typical double-standard from
PayPal again. I suppose if this happens to you
>very often, you'll be
forced to charge everyone a higher shipping rate (one
>which does
provide a tracking number). Or else possibly offer both, but if
>the
buyer wants the $7.00 rate, they have to agree to not file a
PayPal
>claim against you in the event it does not get to them. That's
not a good
>solution, but then nothing seems to be in this
case.
>
> The sad fact is that PayPal always sides
with the person who paid in
>these disputes -- the only sellers who can
get away with taking PayPal and
>scamming the buyers are the ones who
continually empty their PayPal
>accounts and continually close them and
open new ones, staying one step
>ahead of those filing complaints with
PayPal about them. The honest sellers
>get stuck with PayPal arbitrary
decisions.
>
> Perhaps it will soon be time to make
charging insurance mandatory (an
>insured package must by definition
carry some kind of tracking number) and
>at least if the package does
not get to the buyer, you can get reimbursed
>for any refunds you have
to give. Of course, insurance means declaring full
>value for customs,
so it gets messy there as well when
shipping
>international.
>
> Nope. I got no good
solutions. Probably the best is find the cheapest
>way of sending
something with a tracking number. Here in the U.S. we can
>send a
Priority Mail package and for 45 cents add what is called a
>"delivery
confirmation" tag which is actually useless as a delivery
>confirmation,
but does give the package a "tracking number" of
sorts.
>
> --
JR
>
> ----- Original Message
-----
> From: JOHN REID Vintage Movie
Memorabilia
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 15:41
>
Subject: [MOPO] Paypal
>
>
> Hi
everyone
>
> This is a warning to sellers
who use paypal. I sold a poster to a
>customer in France about 3 weeks
ago. He paid with paypal. I sent the
>poster immediately - airmail as
usual. He filed a complaint a few days ago
>saying that he had not
received the poster. No contact with me at all from
>either paypal or
the customer. I logged on to my account and found that
>there was an
"issue" that had to be resolved. Paypal gave me two
options:
>
> 1. Provide on line tracking
of the package.
> 2. Refund the
customer.
>
> I send all of my packages
normal airmail at a basic 7.00. Most of you
>would know that I rarely if
ever have a problem and delivery is often
>within a week but our postal
service does not offer on line tracking on
>international
airmail.
>
> So I was left with no option
at all but to refund the customer. I was
>given no opportunity to
communicate with the customer or
paypal.
>
> My feeling is that he received
the package and uses this as a form of
>scam. Paypal say that if you
ship internationally, you do so at your own
>risk. I'm not sure what
they actually mean by
"internationally".
>
> So, basically, if
you send a package without on line tracking you have
>no comeback with
paypal. If anyone disputes the transaction you have to
>give them a
refund.
>
>
Regards
>
John
>
> JOHN REID VINTAGE MOVIE
MEMORABILIA
> PO Box
92
> Palm Beach
>
Qld 4221
>
Australia
>
WEBSITE:
> www.moviemem.com
>
>
eBay Userid: johnwr
>
> All you need to
know about Australian Posters......
> http://www.moviemem.com/about.html
>
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
>
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