|
Sue,
Gee... for the first time I can remember, we are
very much at odds on this issue and the related one about so-called "nasty"
comments made by some MOPO members when a person suddenly pops up and offers to
sell us a poster at too-high a price. Let's take it one
point at a time:
1) How the poster came to be "found" (Brek's word,
not mine) and what was paid for it is something only the parties directly
involved can say for sure, but Rich Halegua is known for being a pretty
straight-forward guy and he relayed this story publicly on the list after the
poster went up on eBay:
"My friend was up in
Utah
And he had run into a fellow "junk seller" The junk seller told him a story About being set up at a flea market in the area And he sold nothing during the show But a guy walked up & said "my grand father has posters" And the guy went home And the guy came back And the guy had 7 posters AND THE JUNK DEALER PAID HIM $700 And I said "Your friend's name is Brek" and he was shocked I knew all about it furthermore, in conversation I explained to my friend that Brek had hurt himself That Brek should have consigned them to someone who knew what he was doing That the price he was asking was beyond foolishness And that if the poster did not sell on eBay.... That it may wind up selling for far less than he may have been offered" Now, I have no idea what Rich would have to gain by
making up such a odd story -- and he certainly is not known for doing that sort
of thing. So, barring any well-sourced story to the contrary, I don't see
why this one shouldn't be given some credence. After all, as you say, we all
know the story of the FRANKENSTEIN bought for $500 and many others stories like
it. This sort of thing does happen, even with all the publicity generated about
collectibles by The Antiques Roadshow. So, no, we don't really know, but I
seriously doubt that whomever parted with the poster was shown a price guide
quote before selling it. Really... even I wouldn't do that... which brings me
to:
2) How "moral" is it to purchase (or "steal" as
some might term it) a valuable poster for maybe 1% or 2% or 3% of its true
value? If the owner knows its true value and wants to sell it for that, sure,
that's fine. But does anyone believe that really happens? No, please... if the
owner knew the poster was worth maybe $30,000 to $70,000, he wouldn't part with
it for a few hundred or even a thousand. No one is that dumb or needs the money
that quickly. He would at least make a few calls to poster dealers in the
big city listed in the phone book or the internet and get a few offers. Now,
would I personally buy a CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON for $1,000 from someone
who didn't know better? Yeah, I would. But at least that's about 10% of its
value. I would not offer them only $100 or $200 for it. And, you know what,
if I did turn right around and sell it for $10,000? Yes, I *would* look up the
person who sold it to me and lay another couple thousand on them. I value my
karma enough to do that. But... what if I didn't plan to sell it, but bought it
to keep it in my collection until the day I die? Yeah, I'd offer $1,000 and if
he took it I'd skip happily all the way home, buy one of your frames and hang it
on the wall. Why? Because I'm not buying it to immediately flip it and make
money on it as is being done with GRAND HOTEL. I would be buying it for myself
and happy I could get a good deal as a collector and poster fan. Buying it to
re-sell or buying it for one's own collection may seem like a fine moral point
to some, but it makes a difference to me on my personal ethical
scale.
SIDEBAR: The question above really poses an odd
dilemma. I believe most of us, if we were walking down the street and saw a wad
of bills drop out of someone's coat or purse, would pick it up and go calling
after the person to return it to them. We wouldn't even think about keeping it.
But on the other hand, if most of us have a chance to buy a $30,000 poster for a
few hundred or even a few thousand simply because the owner didn't know what the
poster was worth, we'd do it in a hot second. Myself included. But,
morally, is there any difference between the two
situations?
ANOTHER SIDEBAR: I believe it actually is the law
that -- if someone is operating publicly as a dealer and a person comes to
them with an item and says to that dealer "What is this worth?" -- that the
dealer *is* in fact legally obligated to give them a fair appraisal of its
worth. Bruce told me about this law one time, but I'm no expert. Someone correct
me if I'm wrong. So, if there is such a law and Brek was operating publicly as a
dealer when he was approached, well, who knows? We weren't there.
3) But I have no authority or right to judge what
Brek did or did not do and I wasn't there, so I've been merely making
observations on what I have seen -- let's not ignore the fact that after
soliciting offers on this list, he then put the thing up on eBay in C5
condition with a starting bid of $99,000 -- that was more than a bit of, shall
we say "over-reaching" oneself? Particularly for something he had already
announced he had "found". It seemed that having had the incredible luck to
have bought it on the cheap from one sucker, he immediately went looking around
for another sucker to sell it to for high-retail. This is sometimes referred to
as "pushing one's luck". Sure, I tossed out the word... but the term "steal" is
common usage when one is taking about getting a super-incredible bargain..
as in "Man, I can't believe no one else bid on that eBay auction... I really
stole that poster!".
4) Which brings us to the supposedly nasty
comments. I didn't see any comments on either GRAND HOTEL or the LAWRENCE that
were hostile or nasty -- they were realistic evaluations of what experienced
collectors and long-time professional dealers had to say about the times
presented to them by the sellers. Just because they weren't necessarily what the
person offering those two posters wanted to hear, that doesn't make them
"nasty" -- it makes them honest and realistic. Sure, the sellers of those
posters would have preferred to have people on MOPO falling all over themselves,
gushing praise, and begging to be the first in line to make a high-retail offer.
But that's not what MOPO is for. As you said, this is a movie poster discussion
group... and we were discussing the posters brought to our attention in an
honest and realistic manner -- I don't see why you would think that was being
"nasty"?
Besides, I was just giving some free publicity to
the latest Heritage auction... isn't that a time-honored tradition on
MOPO? ... :)
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
From: Susan Heim
To: JR ; [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 16:46
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces as restored Hello JR and all,
In all fairness to Brek, who has been a framing customer of
mine for quite some time, none of us know what he paid for it. That story that
circulated was just a story from people here last month was just a story.
Brek contacted me right after he bought the posters from someone who had
"approached him" at one of his selling locations. He had shown them in the price
guide what the poster had sold for previously so they were aware and
accepted whatever offer he made (and there were more than just the one poster in
the deal) allowing him to do the work of shopping it around and putting up with
all the "negatives".
I know poster dealers all over the world that offer
pennies on the dollar and/or truly "steal" posters if that's what you want to
call it. It's the same in any area of antique or collectable. That's why it is
incumbent on the seller to educate himself before selling. When I
buy a poster from someone, I automatically send them to all the price
guides and auction house results. I offer a fair price but not the top price the
poster has sold for. Many people don't want to deal with auction
houses, etc., etc. They want the sure thing, the money right now, with
as little effort as possible. What about the guy that guy that bought
the Frankenstein in a farmhouse auction for $500 and it resold for $198,000 just
a short time later. Do you think he went back and gave the farmhouse owners a
piece of that action after the auction? Let's face it, if someone walked up to
you and offered you a Creature From the Black Lagoon one sheet for a $1000, how
many of you would insist on buying it but only if you could pay $10,000, which
is not the top price it has gone for but a fair offer? As John Stossel on
20/20 says, "Give me a break"!!!
One more thing I thought I would mention as it has
been bothering me. I came onto Mopo many years ago to be with people who
collected movie posters like I do. I have thought of it as a educational venue
and a support group as I'm with "friends" that can relate. I have had
several of my customers drop off the group over the past year because of nasty
comments made here. I give Brek a lot of credit for staying on the group after
that whole blast to him last month when he announced that he was selling the
"Grand Hotel" one sheet. More recently one of our longtime members offered up a
Lawrence of Arabia poster for, what I thought, was not that absurd of a price
based on recent auction results. Several of our members here were down right
"snotty" to him. What's that all about? Aren't we suppose to support one
another? He wasn't do anything wrong or trying to defraud anyone. I've got to
say, I thought the comments were immature and petty and I was surprised at their
origins. Anyway, enough from me, but I felt it worth mentioning.
Sue Heim
|
- Re: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces as restored JR
- Re: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces as resto... Richard Halegua Comic Art
- Re: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces as resto... Susan Heim
