The bottom line for me is that I don't know what Brek
paid for the posters and, as Kirby said, I don't care, it's not my business. I
don't know the circumstances of the sale, only what I have been told by Brek. I
agree Richie would not make up that story, but I don't know the story was
told to Richie in whole in the first place. As Kirby said, hearsay!! Who
knows anything, other than the buyer and the seller. Brek called me when he
bought the posters and I suggested he join the group and put it out there for
some positive feedback to help him make decisions about the poster. He came to
the group for advice and education and was publicly scolded by several
members along with this story about how he paid $700 for the posters. Often
members respond not thinking that hundreds of people are reading their posts and
that those posts can affect the person they are talking about. They post as
though the person isn't really out there yet the person is a fellow member of
the group reading the posts.
I never said that you were the one offering up the
"nasty" comments. I consider you my friend and I respect your opinions. The
more recent comments I was referring to was the member that was selling his
Lawrence of Arabia and said wished he could keep it in his collection as it was
one of his prize posters, but due to financial reasons had to sell it.
First comment was that at the price he was asking he would probably get
his wish and second comment was from someone who laughed so hard at the first
comment they almost fell over. Why even comment at all if it's going to be
something to humiliate the person?
Remember, we are an insulated little group. There
are thousands of movie poster collectors out there that most of us don't even
know about. I do know that there was a tremendous response to the poster when
Brek listed it on ebay, so much so that it was a wiser decision to let Grey take
over the sale of the poster. I have no doubt it will sell. It is not just the
Academy that is looking for this poster. It is a much desired poster and that
was evidenced by the overwhelming response when it was announced it was
available. We have many a collector here on our group that definitely
would have no problem buying this poster. In addition, I do the framing for
the studio's and many members of the Academy. I have been contacted for
information on this poster, so I know there is much interest.
As a movie poster collector myself, I hope the poster
finds a good home, hopefully to a collector that will treasure it. I wish Grey
and Heritage the best in their sale. The catalog has some wonderful items.
p.s. As Todd said, there were two Frankenstein one sheets that sold at that
farmhouse. I was at the Odyssey auction with Todd standing right behind me when
Ron's copy sold for $198,000. That was some auction, very electric. Todd's story
brings up a good point and that is that some very valuable posters are bought
and sold privately that none of us ever hear about. We all know about Todd's
"The Mummy" one sheet at Sotheby's but how many of you knew about the other copy
of Frankenstein going for $200,000? There are many collectors, especially studio
affiliated people, that are very private about their collections and
often go through someone like Todd and other dealers with comparable knowledge
to deal posters for them, buying and selling. Brek could have done that, but
since he is not that experienced he chose to go through Grey. My guess is that
he offered it on ebay for the higher amount to see what interest there was. Time
will tell.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:17
PM
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Grand Hotel
re-surfaces as restored
Sue,
Gee... for the first time I can remember, we are
very much at odds on this issue and the related one about so-called
"nasty" comments made by some MOPO members when a person suddenly pops up and
offers to sell us a poster at too-high a price. Let's take it
one point at a time:
1) How the poster came to be "found" (Brek's
word, not mine) and what was paid for it is something only the parties
directly involved can say for sure, but Rich Halegua is known for being a
pretty straight-forward guy and he relayed this story publicly on the list
after the poster went up on eBay:
"My friend was up
in Utah
And he had run into a fellow "junk seller"
The junk seller told
him a story
About being set up at a flea market in the area
And he sold
nothing during the show
But a guy walked up & said "my grand father has
posters"
And the guy went home
And the guy came back
And the guy had
7 posters
AND THE JUNK DEALER PAID HIM $700
And I said "Your friend's
name is Brek"
and he was shocked I knew all about it
furthermore, in
conversation I explained to my friend
that Brek had hurt himself
That
Brek should have consigned them to someone who knew what he was doing
That
the price he was asking was beyond foolishness
And that if the poster did
not sell on eBay....
That it may wind up selling for far less than he may
have been offered"
Now, I have no idea what Rich would have to gain
by making up such a odd story -- and he certainly is not known for doing that
sort of thing. So, barring any well-sourced story to the contrary, I
don't see why this one shouldn't be given some credence. After all, as you
say, we all know the story of the FRANKENSTEIN bought for $500 and many others
stories like it. This sort of thing does happen, even with all the publicity
generated about collectibles by The Antiques Roadshow. So, no, we don't really
know, but I seriously doubt that whomever parted with the poster was shown a
price guide quote before selling it. Really... even I wouldn't do that...
which brings me to:
2) How "moral" is it to purchase (or "steal" as
some might term it) a valuable poster for maybe 1% or 2% or 3% of its true
value? If the owner knows its true value and wants to sell it for that, sure,
that's fine. But does anyone believe that really happens? No, please... if the
owner knew the poster was worth maybe $30,000 to $70,000, he wouldn't part
with it for a few hundred or even a thousand. No one is that dumb or needs the
money that quickly. He would at least make a few calls to poster dealers
in the big city listed in the phone book or the internet and get a few offers.
Now, would I personally buy a CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON for $1,000 from
someone who didn't know better? Yeah, I would. But at least that's about 10%
of its value. I would not offer them only $100 or $200 for it. And, you
know what, if I did turn right around and sell it for $10,000? Yes, I *would*
look up the person who sold it to me and lay another couple thousand on them.
I value my karma enough to do that. But... what if I didn't plan to sell it,
but bought it to keep it in my collection until the day I die? Yeah, I'd offer
$1,000 and if he took it I'd skip happily all the way home, buy one of your
frames and hang it on the wall. Why? Because I'm not buying it to immediately
flip it and make money on it as is being done with GRAND HOTEL. I would be
buying it for myself and happy I could get a good deal as a collector and
poster fan. Buying it to re-sell or buying it for one's own collection may
seem like a fine moral point to some, but it makes a difference to me on my
personal ethical scale.
SIDEBAR: The question above really poses an odd
dilemma. I believe most of us, if we were walking down the street and saw a
wad of bills drop out of someone's coat or purse, would pick it up and go
calling after the person to return it to them. We wouldn't even think about
keeping it. But on the other hand, if most of us have a chance to buy a
$30,000 poster for a few hundred or even a few thousand simply because the
owner didn't know what the poster was worth, we'd do it in a hot second.
Myself included. But, morally, is there any difference between the
two situations?
ANOTHER SIDEBAR: I believe it actually is the law
that -- if someone is operating publicly as a dealer and a person comes
to them with an item and says to that dealer "What is this worth?"
-- that the dealer *is* in fact legally obligated to give them a fair
appraisal of its worth. Bruce told me about this law one time, but I'm no
expert. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. So, if there is such a law and Brek
was operating publicly as a dealer when he was approached, well, who knows? We
weren't there.
3) But I have no authority or right to judge what
Brek did or did not do and I wasn't there, so I've been merely making
observations on what I have seen -- let's not ignore the fact that after
soliciting offers on this list, he then put the thing up on eBay in C5
condition with a starting bid of $99,000 -- that was more than a bit of, shall
we say "over-reaching" oneself? Particularly for something he had already
announced he had "found". It seemed that having had the incredible luck
to have bought it on the cheap from one sucker, he immediately went looking
around for another sucker to sell it to for high-retail. This is sometimes
referred to as "pushing one's luck". Sure, I tossed out the word... but the
term "steal" is common usage when one is taking about getting a
super-incredible bargain.. as in "Man, I can't believe no one else bid
on that eBay auction... I really stole that poster!".
4) Which brings us to the supposedly nasty
comments. I didn't see any comments on either GRAND HOTEL or the LAWRENCE that
were hostile or nasty -- they were realistic evaluations of what experienced
collectors and long-time professional dealers had to say about the times
presented to them by the sellers. Just because they weren't necessarily what
the person offering those two posters wanted to hear, that doesn't make
them "nasty" -- it makes them honest and realistic. Sure, the sellers of those
posters would have preferred to have people on MOPO falling all over
themselves, gushing praise, and begging to be the first in line to make a
high-retail offer. But that's not what MOPO is for. As you said, this is a
movie poster discussion group... and we were discussing the posters brought to
our attention in an honest and realistic manner -- I don't see why you would
think that was being "nasty"?
Besides, I was just giving some free publicity to
the latest Heritage auction... isn't that a time-honored tradition on
MOPO? ... :)
-- JR
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 16:46
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces as
restored
Hello JR and all,
In all fairness to Brek, who has been a framing customer of
mine for quite some time, none of us know what he paid for it. That story that
circulated was just a story from people here last month was just a
story. Brek contacted me right after he bought the posters from
someone who had "approached him" at one of his selling locations. He had shown
them in the price guide what the poster had sold for previously so they were
aware and accepted whatever offer he made (and there were more than just
the one poster in the deal) allowing him to do the work of shopping it around
and putting up with all the "negatives".
I know poster dealers all over the world that offer
pennies on the dollar and/or truly "steal" posters if that's what you want to
call it. It's the same in any area of antique or collectable. That's why it is
incumbent on the seller to educate himself before selling. When I
buy a poster from someone, I automatically send them to all the price
guides and auction house results. I offer a fair price but not the top price
the poster has sold for. Many people don't want to deal with auction
houses, etc., etc. They want the sure thing, the money right now,
with as little effort as possible. What about the guy that guy that
bought the Frankenstein in a farmhouse auction for $500 and it resold for
$198,000 just a short time later. Do you think he went back and gave the
farmhouse owners a piece of that action after the auction? Let's face it, if
someone walked up to you and offered you a Creature From the Black Lagoon one
sheet for a $1000, how many of you would insist on buying it but only if you
could pay $10,000, which is not the top price it has gone for but a fair
offer? As John Stossel on 20/20 says, "Give me a break"!!!
One more thing I thought I would mention as it
has been bothering me. I came onto Mopo many years ago to be with people who
collected movie posters like I do. I have thought of it as a educational venue
and a support group as I'm with "friends" that can relate. I have had
several of my customers drop off the group over the past year because of nasty
comments made here. I give Brek a lot of credit for staying on the group after
that whole blast to him last month when he announced that he was selling the
"Grand Hotel" one sheet. More recently one of our longtime members offered up
a Lawrence of Arabia poster for, what I thought, was not that absurd of a
price based on recent auction results. Several of our members here were down
right "snotty" to him. What's that all about? Aren't we suppose to support one
another? He wasn't do anything wrong or trying to defraud anyone. I've got to
say, I thought the comments were immature and petty and I was surprised at
their origins. Anyway, enough from me, but I felt it worth mentioning.
Sue Heim
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2006 12:15
PM
Subject: [MOPO] Grand Hotel re-surfaces
as restored
I see that the one sheet for GRAND HOTEL which was originally
shopped around on this list after it was stolen... excuse me, I mean after
it was "found" and purchased for a few hundred bucks from the little old man
in Nevada who didn't know what he had... has resurfaced in restored
condition as part of the new Heritage floor auction being held in Dallas
July 12 -13. Interesting to note they decided not to linen-back it, but just
went with paper replacement and touch-up. I also see they have it estimated
at $50,000 - $70,000. A tidy profit for the guy who "found" it...
Oh,
well... all's fair in warfare and poster trading, I suppose...
See it
in all its restored glory at:
http://movieposters.heritageauctions.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=636&Lot_No=28713
See
what it looked like when originally "found" before it was expertly restored
to "appears mint" condition at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:L:LCA:US:31&item=7619230039
...
well, at least someone is going to save $30,000 to $50,000 by waiting until
the owner consigned it to Heritage... :)
I don't suppose anyone will
tell us who did the restoration? Looks like a fine job. True artists never
get the recognition they deserve in their life times...
Yours in all
curmudgeonhood,
--
JR
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